Built for Someone Else with Cheryl Gordon

Denise 0:00

Hello and welcome to Thrive After 45. I'm Denise Drinkwalter, heart whisperer, midlife mirror, and mentor. And every week, I am absolutely honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45. Together, we uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion, because when one woman turns her light on, the rest of the room catches fire. What if everything you thought about taking care of yourself, you thought you knew, but it was designed for someone else? What if midlife was actually the invitation to finally learn what works for you? My guest today has been teaching yoga for decades. Thousands of classes, thousands of students. She knew the practice inside and out. And then menopause arrived, and suddenly the tools she had trusted didn't quite fit anymore. So she did what a true teacher does. She went back to the beginning. She asked harder questions. She looked at what she had always been taught and noticed that most of it had been designed for men, or for a much younger woman, and she rebuilt it for us. Nearly 30 years of teaching, 10,000 lives touched, and she is still learning, still evolving, because our guest today knows that the women coming to her now aren't just looking to sleep better or feel stronger in their bodies. They are looking to come home to themselves, and that is exactly where our guest, Cheryl Gordon, leads them to. I can't wait to have this conversation with you today, Cheryl. Welcome to our show. Wow, Denise, that's so wonderful. Who are we, who are we talking about again? Thank you so much. That was such a warm and welcoming invitation. Thank you. Oh, my pleasure. I love having conversations with the likes of you on this show because there's something way deeper than just, "I do the yoga class. This is how it works, and this is what we're gonna do." Life kicks us in the butt, we land, and sometimes we land and bury ourselves, and sometimes we land and stand up and move forward, which is what you did. Tell us about that journey based on what I shared at the beginning. Well, it, it was a very accurate depic- depiction, actually. when menopause hit, it was the very beginning of COVID for me, and it was very tempting, as you mentioned, to kind of bury your light. Like, just to give up, because I didn't know if what I was teaching in the yoga world was really relevant anymore. Mm-hmm. Without sleeping very well, with the hot flashes, was I a, was I a good advertisement for the practice anymore? I kind of felt like I was falling apart. So it, it did involve going back to basics. It did involve a lot of listening to my heart whisper. Who was I at 60 years old? what, what was my relevance? what was I being called to do? And because yoga's such a huge part of who I am... It's funny, this, this, you know, you know, white bread person Yeah who grew up on a farm in Ontario, how could they be so drawn to this ancient practice that comes from across the world? But I really am, and I really, I really... It is who I am. Mm-hmm. So I thought, "You know what? I just gotta figure this out. I gotta figure out how I can continue to practice," because there is more joint pain as you get older. Yeah. There's no doubt about that. No amount of yoga's gonna change, you know, the fact- Right that we are getting older. Yeah. And, you know, there is the, the question of I'm fatigued a lot. I have brain fog. Mm. Um, the hot flashes, um, the feeling of l- losing confidence that you can balance on one leg without falling and breaking a bone or something. Right. Yeah. So I needed to rebuild my personal practice so that- Mm-hmm I was willing to accept more help from chairs or other props, for example. Mm-hmm. Um, and I also needed to rebuild my attitude towards my practice and my expectations of myself. As I went through that process, I realized... I got really excited again. I- Mm-hmm I went from being, like, sweaty and teary and really, really tired to- Um, getting the proper supports, learning not only for what yoga has to offer, but maybe what our medical system has to offer and what the power- Mm of community. And I was like, I was really excited. And I thought other women need to hear this message too. I don't want them fading away when they hit my age- Yeah feeling like- Yeah they're spent. Mm-hmm. there, there's ways for us to, to bloom even when we're older, so. I love that. Yeah. What what a tsunami. COVID. Like, seriously. It's insane. I can't imagine. Yeah. Did you wake up one day and go, "You know what? No, I'm This is not how it's going to be." Is that how it worked for you? Or was it like a- It took about a year, to be honest. Okay. It took about a year of kind of, you know, just kind of bumbling around in the dark. Yeah. I didn't even realize I was going through menopause. Isn't that ridiculous? As someone who's- Well, no a yoga therapist- It Mm who's had, like, training in anatomy and physiology and all this kind of stuff. Like, I, I help other people with all kinds of different conditions, but in my own experience I didn't recognize perimenopause. And even when menopause was descending, it took me a few months to realize, "Oh, yeah, I haven't had a period. Oh, yeah, look at the hot flashes. Duh." So for, for women, we just We really need I think in your introduction- Mm you mentioned about being- Mm-hmm a mirror or a reflection. Yes, yes. You do need your community. You do need teachers and mentors- Yeah to help you. This is- Yeah this is one of the biggest transitions a human body can go through, and so many women try to power through it- Yeah and not talk. Mm-hmm. 'Cause we always have been able to do that. We- held up the world- Unique on our pinky finger, right? Yes. And it's bewildering- Yeah when our bodies betray us like this. So it took about a year of bumbling around in the dark until I figured out I don't think things are gonna get better on their own. I think I might have to be proactive here. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then how long was that journey for you to go from that to changing how you support through your practice? I think it took another two years- Okay of trial and error, research, getting myself well again. Mm. And then, and then discovering, discovering along that two years of experimentation what was really working for me- Mm-hmm and then putting it together in my She Mindfulness program. So which is kind of drawing from the tools of yoga and mindfulness, but specifically for women- Mm who are experiencing the menopausal transition. So it took me about two years of exper- experimenting and learning, and then- Mm-hmm I was able to distill it down to this program, and then prepare that to share with other women. And what types of, feedback are you getting from it? It's actually kind of surprising. Like, we, we think the pain points of menopause are weight gain- Yeah sleeplessness, brain fog, you know- Mm-hmm the hot flashes. You think that's where people would talk about the results- Mm-hmm in the She Program. That's not what... If you look at the video testimonials, that's not what you hear from the customers. You hear from these women how the She Program has given them their voice back. Mm-hmm. It's given them their hope, that there is another chapter unfolding, and that their power is back in their own hands. They're excited that instead of dancing to everyone else's tune, which we have done for decades as women- Mm-hmm that they are getting ready to write their own story, and I didn't expect that. I expected we'd just help people lose a couple pounds- Mm-hmm and sleep better. You know, I thought that's what they wanted from it. But actually, there's so much more. Like, you get those little wins, and you do- Mm-hmm start sleeping better, or you do f- see the scale shifting. Um, but that inspires you to take on so many other things that you didn't have time or energy for when you were busy working full time with little kids. Yeah. You know, uh, keep, keep pushing through in your own career, you know? Yeah. Yeah. The ch- the, the phase is changing. It's a, it's a new phase of life and opportunity. And isn't it beautiful how all of the digging in and the learning you've done, and what you've taken years to put together... This isn't a flash in the pan, here, let's go and try this now. You've spent years, three, four years based on what was going on for you, and I think that is so valuable. And I'm, I'm really believing in my heart of hearts that the reason why you're getting those kinds of testimonials is because this is who you are. This is your soul work, like you shared in the beginning, right? Yeah. And you're showing how to come back home to yourself, no matter what the, quote-unquote, "ailments" may be. Exactly. What a beautiful gift. And that is the purpose of yoga for everyone, is a pathway home. Mm. Um, an integration, a healing at the deepest levels. It's just w- for... Because of the way yoga is practiced here in the West, we get enamored with things like hot yoga because it's supposed to be a good workout, and we want to be able to do all the complicated postures, and we lose track of some of those more spiritual or some, some of those more heart-centered- Mm teachings. so at the heart of what I'm teaching, I think, Denise- Mm-hmm is self-compassion, self-acceptance. And you mentioned in your intro about self-care. we often think about spa days- Yep or, you know, I just need to get away. I need a vacation. Yeah. A little retail therapy. Yeah. My glass of wine at the end of the day 'cause I've had a rough time, I'm stressed. Mm-hmm. We think of those things as self-care, but actually I would challenge midlife women to rethink, what they're doing to care for themselves, 'cause a lot of- Mm those things are distractions or band-aids for how we're really feeling. so in order to really express or really come into our full expression of who we are in midlife- Mm-hmm we need to be brave enough to experience our lives as they are without all those distractions or band-aids. Mm-hmm. And it takes tremendous bravery, and that's why it's nice to have someone hold your hand along the way. Right? Totally. Mm-hmm. And, and somebody who's safe, like yourself, right? Somebody who is, is available to... There's no judgment. It's just how can you come and just be, right? Yeah. A community. I love that you build that community. Yeah. So needed. We hear this all the time, community, community. And people are like, "Yeah, I have a community." And there's so many different levels of community, isn't there? Well, definitely. And, and so many times we're trying to We want to maintain the friendships and the relationships- Of course that we've had for decades. But as we change and we hit this stage of life- Yep and we want to blossom and bloom, then some of the relationships that have always been comfortable maybe aren't so comfortable anymore, or those people are still expecting from us- Mm-hmm what we've always provided. If I could offer a personal example of this. Yes. I have adult children. Mm-hmm. Love them dearly. Yep. but it's always been me that puts on the big Christmas dinner or the big family celebrations. Yes. And it was just, you know, like taken for granted. Mm-hmm. When I went through this stage, I had to really examine, is that who I am anymore? Mm-hmm. First of all, do I wanna put that much work into something? Yeah. So there was a little, there was a little confusion in our family dynamic. And it's not always comfortable when you change something like that. Maybe you've been caring for your mom all these years- Mm-hmm and when you hit menopause and you're not sleeping and da da da, someone else is gonna have to, or other family members. They might not wanna have those conversations with you. Mm-hmm. So that's what I mean about relationships that have always- Mm been in a certain paradigm- Yep. Yep maybe have to shift. Yep. So this is where it's nice to be able to choose new relationships. Mm-hmm. Build a new community where- Mm-hmm there isn't the judgment, there isn't the expectation of you. You are being supported for who you are in this moment. Yeah. It's such a beautiful gift. Mm, mm-hmm. Now, I hope that women learn through my program to offer that gift to themselves. That's where the self-compassion and self-care comes from. Mm-hmm. To be their own best friends, in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. But it's nice to have other voices in that group too. I, I, I totally agree with what you're saying in terms of having other voices. And the reason I think it's so empowering to have a collective that are experiencing similar, not necessarily all the same, but similarities, there is a different kind of a connection that can happen through those conversations, isn't there? Yeah. And it's amazing, even virtually, like you and I. Oh, yes. It's amazing. You know? I never would've believed it 10 years ago. Isn't that true? Yeah. But I have enough direct experience now of creating really wonderful friendships and supportive relationships, even virtually. Absolutely. Absolutely. Although I have to admit, in real life is so beautiful too. So I know back in 2020 when COVID hit and the virtual capacity became a new reality, I think it was a great opportunity. Now, we don't live too far from one another. We don't. So that's pretty cool. I'm expecting we will come together to have an in real life hug, as, as they call it, and I'm looking forward to that. And maybe- Ready we'll bring some of our friends and- Yeah. That would be fun. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. You mentioned, you know, you went through some of the things that happen as we all know, you know, some of the pillars that happen that we all tend to... Oh, menopause. You do, you have the hot flashes. You ha- you mentioned about the belly weight, um, and which takes me to numbers on a scale, right? I used to do that. I'm not gonna lie, I still do it on occasion just to go, "Well, Denise, what have you been doing recently that really you need to look at?" But anyway, what does the number on the scale have to do with living a full life? So is there a difference? You mentioned about self-care and self-indulgence. What's the, what's going on in that? And should women just accept that they're getting older? I think this is an amazing question, and I get this feedback a lot, like especially coming from the world of mindfulness. Mm. There's, you know, can't you just accept life? Shouldn't you just stay in the present moment? Which is a really spiritual sort of concept. So this is a big question, but I'll try to unpack it efficiently and quickly. Sure. No worries. Um, so the number on the scale. It, the scale tyrannizes us, right? Especially our cohort, our generation. So- Mm-hmm it, there, you do have to reformat your relationship with that data and see it simply as a number, a data point, and use it as a way to, um, evaluate whether what you're doing is in alignment with your higher goals or not. Right. And the self-care is so important through this process. Mm-hmm. And maybe if your desire is to fit into a certain pair of pants or to get to a certain number on the scale, if that's the pain point that draws you into the process, I'm cool with that. It's not about judging your body or eating perfectly or- Mm-hmm you know, number one nutrition or anything like that. It's what are you discovering about yourself- Mm when you go through the process of following these data points? Are you discovering that by the end of the day you're so tired and exhausted and you've been d- you know, offering so much to the world that the only way you can comfort yourself is in the bottom of a box of Oreos, you know? Mm-hmm. And you don't want anybody to know that. Been there, done the binge. Right. I, I'm, I'm a card-carrying member. But, you know, and then you feel shame, and then- the spiral starts. Tomorrow I'm gonna be better. Monday I'm gonna start a diet. And it's, it's that self-loathing, that self-aggression. So wouldn't it be better just to weigh yourself on a scale- Yeah get the data point, and then have a program that would lead you through towards a goal of losing some weight, if that was your goal, but in a way that you discover those feelings- Mm-hmm and don't engender the, the, um, shame spiral and the binge eating. 'Cause there are ways to, i- with, with loving kindness and- Mm-hmm and practicing relaxation breaks throughout the day so your nervous system has a break from the constant pressure of our lives. There's a way of being your own best friend so you don't feel so abandoned by the end of the day. Love that. And there's all kinds of tools like that that we can look at. But, but that is why you don't just give o- give up and say, "Well, this is my body." Right. "This is my life," or y- whatever, you know? Yeah. Because we were born to bring certain energy or certain talents out into the world. In yoga we call that our dharma. And- Yes and I think now that we don't have little kids underfoot, that we aren't pressured to build our careers in the same way- Mm-hmm our mortgages might even be paid off, that now's the time that we can really show what we're made out of, and it would be a sin to let those- Right talents be buried under sweaty menopausal- Yep symptoms. And I think a lot of times there are very real reasons why we have belly fat in menopause, and it's got nothing to do with what you're eating. Mm-hmm. It's got a lot to do with our hormones. But there are a lot of women who just allow that extra weight to pile on. They're bewildered why it's there. Mm-hmm. And they just, they just bury themselves, their feelings, their potential underneath- Mm-hmm that feeling shamed because they're gaining weight. I wanna help you dig out from underneath that. Mm-hmm. Not because you need to be bikini ready for summer- Yes or have flat abs, for God's sake. But- Yeah because I want you to be all that you were meant to be in this world. And the journey of weighing yourself, being kind to yourself any way, taking progressive action- Mm-hmm supporting yourself, regulating your nervous system, all those steps that I teach in the program- Mm-hmm that will help you discover the fullness of life. You're gonna take those skills- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm and apply them to your relationships with your adult children, or deciding whether to retire, or should you move? Is it time to give up the family home? Mm-hmm. Do you have a difficult parent that's v- a really difficult situation to navigate? All of these different kinds of things happen in midlife, and these skills that you might learn losing weight can be applied to setting loving boundaries and self-care guidelines in all those other situations. That was a long answer, sorry. I... Mm, don't ever apologize. Never apologize on my show. It's the Canadian-ness coming out. That's it. Right? You know, what you were saying is so, so important because what I am hearing is it, it is yoga practice with other things so deeply embedded that you get to become the full you that maybe has been lost over time, but it's always been deep in your soul. Mm-hmm. And a lot of my work has been going back to thinking about before I got married the first time, even maybe- Yeah before I had kids. When I was still in university, I had ambitions, I had goals, I had dreams, and I think we can all kind of identify with that earlier version of ourselves when we were very forward-thinking. Mm-hmm. We were excited about our future. We were planning for things. Compare that to the way I felt at 60 when I was slammed with all these health issues 'cause of menopause. Yeah. It was just, I was gonna roll over and give up. Yeah. Yeah. What a- what about that younger version of myself, you know? Yeah. There's no reason why I can't pull that- Mm-hmm back out and have some fun. Yeah. It's my time to have fun now. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the opportunity is sitting in wait just for you to come in and open that door and see what is still brewing inside there. I call it a spark that's there, and it's just now the oxygen, and you are part of the oxygen resolution for that spark to become a flame. Yeah. Love it. And there's so many women that, you know, different health problems come up. I mean- Mm-hmm you know, we are getting older, I'm not denying that. Sure. But the practice of yoga does offer so many health benefits- Mm-hmm that can help with a lot of, you know, joint pain, uh, sleeplessness- Yeah uh, regulating our nervous system so the hot flashes aren't quite so bad. Bad, yeah, yeah. Love that. Love that. Is there anything that you would love to share with our audience, um, that we haven't tapped into specifically, a, a message you would love to have all of our listeners hear from you because you've given us such depth and capacity and a light for us to be able to move towards? Is there anything you'd love to share before we close today? Well, I am a yoga teacher, so can I- Yay. Yeah share like a, a 30 to 60 pr- second practice? Please. Oh, please. This is super easy. Super easy. Pl- and if you're driving while you're listening to this, repeat this part when you get home. But if you're, if you're doing anything around the house or whatever, you have the capacity to just find somewhere to sit for a second and close your eyes. Let your hands rest on your lap- Mm-hmm and with your palms facing down. Mm-hmm. And just notice for a second what that feels like, and create a word in your mind- That describes palms down on your lap. Some of my students say things like grounded or heavy. And then turn your palms up very, very slowly and notice how you shift slightly and you, maybe there's a different word that describes this. Some of my students say open or light. Now let's inhale where you are, and then as you exhale, turn the palms down and think of that first word, like grounded or whatever it was. Inhale, turn your palms up. Take your time. Think of that word. Exhale, turn your palms down. Let's do that one more time. Inhale, palms up. Think of that word. And exhale, palms down, and think of that word. And then go ahead and open your eyes again and come back to us. But just noticing that, like, that was about 60 seconds, I think. That was what I call a mindfulness snack. Mm-hmm. And if you just take those tiny little breaks throughout the day, snack on mindfulness throughout the day, you literally reset your chemicals in your brain and in your body so that you don't, you're not so vulnerable to all of the stress-induced problems that we have in midlife. So I don't know if anybody else felt that shift, but a lot of my- Yep clients say that they actually feel like they've, they've dropped out and come back in a new woman for a second. Yeah. I, for those of you who are watching on YouTube, you saw me close my eyes. I wasn't sleeping. I was following the prompts. And it took me a second to close my eyes, 'cause it takes me a bit to get settled, right? So- Mm-hmm absolutely tuned me into the moment and the energy that was flowing through as I did that exercise. And how quick. Yeah. 'Cause you would be kind of pumped up a little bit- Yeah 'cause you're hosting a podcast. You've got tech- Yeah things. You're... So your, what we call sympathetic nervous system is revving- Sure right now. Mm-hmm. Which is appropriate. You know, it's how we get stuff done in the world. For sure. So I was asking you to shift gears to the parasympathetic nervous system, which is hard. Right. But the more we practice the mindfulness snacks, the more we learn how to shift gears, the more fluid our system becomes. We actually reverse aging when we do that. Amazing. I love de-stressing. And I would, love to know if there's anybody who is listening who doesn't love to de-stress. So put it in the show notes if you're like, "Nope, I don't like de-stressing." I'd love to hear from you. thank you so much, Cheryl, for sharing everything that you have with us. And we will have in the show notes how to get in touch with you. Just wanna clarify, do we need to be in the room with you in Niagara in order to access your program? No, everything is available online, although I do have in-person opportunities throughout the year. Perfect. And if anybody's interested in learning a little bit more but they're not ready to They don't know me yet- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm I do have a free 45-minute master class that kind of dives, dives a bit more deeply into the, the science and, and the, the program itself. So you can just try it out for free and, and see if, Sure if that's where you wanna go. Yep. Perfect. Oh, thank you so much. We will have all of that information in the show notes. And before we close, I would love to share something gently but very clearly, that these conversations have arisen something within me where I am hosting and behind the scenes pulling together an live in-person two-day immersive experience called Ignite the Inner Uprising. It will be in November of 2026. I envision a room full of women coming together live and to come into our own, to come and just be, to shut the noise out, and to come to a safe space where these types of conversations we are having become more embedded, more embodied, and igniting the spark that is living deep within you, as Cheryl was already alluding to. And we know so much is going on deep inside of our hearts and our souls, and this is an opportunity for you to come and just be in an incredible space where there's safety and there is a grounded presence, so- Sign me up. Where do I sign up? There will be In the show notes there is the wait list. So get your name on that wait list- Okay because you'll wanna get the information and be one of the first to know how it's all gonna roll out and how you can attend. And, um, I'm so excited to bring this to the world because, you know, women in particular in midlife are underserved, right? Mm-hmm. We're underserved, it massively, and it's time to change that, and this is I'm seeing this as an inaugural event. It's like a movement for women in midlife so we don't, like I said at the very beginning, get buried and just disappear into the world. There's so much calling us, like you shared, Cheryl, from when we were teenagers before. Like, there was a spark, and that's what this is. We are igniting that inner uprising. Yeah, it sounds amazing. Oh, I'm so excited. So if this is- landed for you. Make sure you put your name on that wait list. Get, get on there. And if there is something that came through in our conversation today, make sure that you like, follow, share, give us a review so more women in midlife can hear and see these incredible conversations and these amazing guests that I get to share space with. And make sure that you thrive after 45. Cheryl, thank you again for your time, your presence, and your gifts sharing into the world. And everyone who's listening, make sure you go and do something for you, by you, because of you today. Namaste.