Find the Hole in the Hull with Barbara Wiseman

Hello, and welcome to Thrive After 45. I'm Denise Drinkwalter, midlife mentor and mirror, and every week I am honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45. Together, we'll uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion. Because when one woman turns her light on, the rest of the room catches fire What if the part of you that has been quietly waiting for permission to act is actually what the world has been waiting for? Today, my guest began her work long before the word sustainability became a hashtag. In the 1970s, she was on the ground helping to resettle 60,000 refugees, not theorizing about human suffering, living alongside it, finding solutions in the middle of it, and something in that experience never left her. Decades later, she co-founded an international nonprofit operating in nine countries, not built on ideology or agenda, but on science, logic, and one unwavering belief that the Earth's most complex challenges have answers if we're willing to follow the evidence rather than the argument. She has helped clean up oil spills across 70 countries, worked to locate hidden water reserves in drought-stricken regions. She's rescued wildlife from war zones and disaster sites. She's built an entire framework, cooperative ecology, around the radical idea that decisions made for the good of all create better outcomes for everyone, including the natural world. For over 40 years, our guest has been turning global challenges into practical solutions. Her work is global, but the invitation she carries is deeply personal, because the woman who learns to stop waiting for the world to change is the woman who changes it. My guest today, co-founder and president of the Earth Organization, Barbara Wiseman. Welcome to Thrive After 45. Denise, thank you so much, and what a beautiful introduction. My goodness, I'm, I'm honored. Yeah. So am I to be in this room having this conversation with you today. Oh my gosh. Before you became- Your- Yeah, go ahead. I was just gonna say the b- the beginning i- of your introduction to the show itself was so beautiful. It was inspiring. Oh, my goodness, my... Sorry, let me- That's okay unplug this phone. No worries. We are real. We keep it real for many reasons, and this is one of them. We are busy people behind the scenes, and I am so appreciative that Barbara has taken time out of her very busy days to spend time sharing her wisdom and capacity to help us, as women in the audience, understand that one person can make a difference. So Barbara, you were gonna say something. I don't know if you remember what it was. I do. Oh, good. And I do apologize. Oh. I'm usually really good at turning the phone off, and I just blew it this time. All good. So what I was gonna say is th- the opening of your, you know, your introduction to your show, it was so inspiring and so poignant to me because I felt like in my life I didn't start blooming, if you will- Mm-hmm really blooming until, you know, until well after I was f- 45. Yeah. and really, it, it- so much experience, brought enough wisdom- Mm to be able to, really start going after my goals, and, making those goals something that I could be proud of. Mm. Right? And just being willing to, expand my horizon and make that goal just as big as, you know, bigger than I thought I could do. Yeah. and, and just so happy now that, you know, by persisting towards that, it actually looks like I'm going to achieve the- that goal now, and i- you know. but, what a, my goodness, you know, what a journey. And as I said, it was after 45 that I really started being willing to expand my horizons- Mm to a degree that I was really... That was exciting to me. Not just like, "Oh, well that would be nice to accomplish," you know? But no, this is exciting. I love what you're saying because I believe, and, and not only in the conversations I have with the guests that I get to have on the show, but I do hear from my clients as well that there seems to be an opportunity for shift at this age and stage where life changes for us, and when we come at it from that lens, things really get to sift and sort their way through if we're open to it. And that's what I'm hearing you say is, this is an opportunity that I have been able to actually might be able to realize because of your experience thus far, and then you opened up that door and you saw possibilities, and you took those steps, and you decided. And when you were younger, it wasn't there yet for you. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And there was so much I thought I couldn't do. Right? Right. Ugh. and then just the more, y- the more I was willing to go, "Wait a minute," you know? here's a goal." Yeah. "But how about I do this?" yeah. y- Expand, open impossibilities. Oh, I couldn't possibly- Yeah do that. Well, all right, but let's just see, you know? And then every single thing has been, you know, becomes reality that it is achievable So help us to understand as we're listening to your vision and, those of you who are not seeing it on YouTube, Barbara had her hands closer together, and then as she was saying, sh- it was like the door was opening up, so her hands were spreading out and things were, uh, possible, and she just took the step and didn't say, "Well, I don't think... Why can't I? Why, what's the reason why I can't?" I- is there something that you can recall, is there an instance that happened or a m- memory that you have where you started to flip, I'm gonna say this, flip the script, where, "I don't, I can't do that. Who am I kidding," right? To, "Well, why can't I?" Getting that lens of curiosity. Is there something in your life that happened that caused that transition of possibility? Do you know, it was an inspiration by a very dear friend of mine. Hmm. and, his name was Laurence Anthony. Mm-hmm. Laurence was a, an extraordinary person. Mm. And he owned a wildlife preserve where he lived, i- in South Africa. Mm-hmm. And he was, world-renowned for a couple of things that he had done. One was he had, he had rescued a herd of wild elephants, that the herd had been culled and killed off and d- they were down to seven. Oh, wow. And they hated humans. Yeah. and they were very hostile, right? Oh. And they were tromping through villages and turning over Jeeps and very dangerous. Yeah. And he got a call one day from a friend saying, uh, "We've got this herd and they're troublesome, and we're just gonna put them all down. Um, but if you want them, you know, I heard that you wanted to repopulate your area with elephant." Okay. "Um, if you want them, we'll give them to you," right? "You just have to pay for their chips." You... There you go. Seven elephants. Imagine he, you know, he'd grown up in the African bush, but he actually hadn't had much, much, interaction or experience- Mm with elephants. So he had to think about it for a couple of days, and then he just decided, you know, "If I'm their only chance- Right I've gotta try." Mm. So that story was so phenomenal that a bestselling book ended up being written about it called The Elephant Whisperer. Mm. He didn't like that name because he said it wa- "I was the one who did the listening." Yes. but his publisher, you know, went, "No, this is a great name. You've gotta, you've gotta use this." But it's the story of this- Mm extraordinary relationship and the development of it. And even though they continued to be totally wild elephants, they, he built, a relationship with them and- Mm and they with him that was so incredible that it got to the point where he could go out into the bush and call out to them. They could be a mile away, and if they heard it was Lawrence, they would come to him like puppy dogs and stand around him for hours just to be with him. And then it got to the point where every single time he went away on a trip, the night he returned home, the whole herd would magically show up at the house. And then- Mm unfortunately, he died in, 2013, and he was 300 miles away from the house. They were 12 miles from the house, and they perceived that he died, and they walked in mourning to his house, and they stayed around the house for several hours. And then every year for four years, they returned to the house on the anniversary of his death. Right. Wow. Just extraordinary. The other thing that Lawrence did that he was very famous for was that he, you probably don't remember his name, but you might remember the story of the man who went into Baghdad at the very beginning of the war in 2003, and he rescued the Baghdad Zoo. And he was there for six months, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And he, and, w- rescuing, protecting the animals, rebuilding the zoo, that sort of thing. And it was an absolutely incredible experience. While everyone else was fleeing- Mm-hmm he went in there to rescue these animals. It was the largest zoo in the Middle East. Mm. And he knew they were in big trouble. Yeah, of course. Right? Yeah. um, i- the size of the projects that Lawrence took on were so extraordinary- Mm-hmm and it expanded my own horizons, you know? And as a result, when he was on his way back from Baghdad- Mm he stopped in London, and my husband and I were there that week, and we were all attending a big conference, and Lawrence was already a friend of mine. And my husband was really busy that week, and Lawrence and I spent a bunch of time together in pub- Yeah. Yeah. with him downloading this phenomenal story of what he had just come from. Wow. And what the challenges that he had in the middle of the war. Mm. uh, it, right? it was just extraordinary. And at that time, I was the executive director of a good-sized management consulting firm. Mm-hmm. And Lawrence w- had been really disappointed, because two months after he first got there- Mm four of the top environmental groups in the world showed up, ostensibly to help. And to be honest- Mm they were a complete disaster. Oh, no. They didn't do anything of benefit except when they arrived, they brought a truckload of supplies. But within three days after they arrived, everybody else wished that they had never come, because they were- Oh, dear they were just there to show their millions of members that they were there, and they raised millions of dollars because of that Not a dime of that went to the zoo or what, you know, w- was supposedly the purpose, and then they left. Wow. So he was really disappointed in what he saw, right? and he- I'm sure. So based on that, he asked me if I would help him start an organization that would be dedicated to- Mm um, taking on really important environmental issues- Mm-hmm finding solutions, and- Mm getting those solutions implemented. No politics, no opinions- Mm-hmm no agendas- Yeah other than our, you know, our agenda is to find the truth of the situation, find the real source of it, find a solution that works for everybody. Right, yeah. Not just the spotted owl, but the, you know, the- Yeah but, um, the, you know, people, jobs, economy, commerce and industry, everybody. Everything, yeah. And get it implemented, right? Yeah, yeah. And so at, at that point, I so admired him. I was just, you know, thrilled that he had asked me to help him with this. Oh, yes. And that's where we started back in 2003. Okay. Yeah. Well, and I am sure that he asked you for a reason. He could have asked anybody, I'm sure, but there was something in you that he probably saw and knew that you maybe didn't see in yourself yet. I don't know, but that's just what's coming through for me. Well, that's very nice. You know, I hadn't even thought of it that way, but yes, uh, he must have seen something certainly 'cause he- Yeah he could have asked anyone. But, um- Yeah yeah, he- maybe he just saw that I was crazy enough to- Well- to grab my nose and take the plunge, right? Because this was an area that I knew nothing about. Well, right. Right? Yeah. I mean, the only things that I knew were what I had heard in the media. Of course. And, uh, you know, and immediately as I started actually applying my management tools- Right and research tools- Yeah and evaluation tools and looking at what was actually going on- Yeah the more, you know, it became obvious that nothing in the media- Mm was what was actually going on. Right. It was always at least significantly different, if not completely. Completely? Yeah. Right. I mean, completely, you know. Mm-hmm. And so situations that aren't really a big deal were being- Mm-hmm promoted as end of the world. Situations that were really a big deal were not being reported on at all. Yeah. And- Yeah you know, and s- any solutions that were being offered up were just gonna end up creating bigger problems in the end- Right than real solutions. Right. So at that point I went, "Wow, this is... I really need to help him with this." I felt duty- Yeah motivated to help him- Right with this because I felt it was important. Mm-hmm. So- And, Yeah. Yeah well, I think that- He sounds like an incredible person- He really was in more ways than one. Yeah. He really was. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he, he was just, he had no fear. He was just willing to go in anywhere if it was the right thing to do. Wow. And, and isn't that the pivotal piece? in terms of the right thing to do. And like you suggested and shared earlier, right for everyone, not only the situation, but everybody benefits because of the years you've done, you continue to do the work that you do, you look at every angle, and you make sure all the pieces of the puzzle are in the right box- Exactly as it were. Right? Exactly. Z- for example, if you're coming up with solutions that are only going to benefit nature, for example- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm um, and but people and the economy are going to b- be harmed- Yeah as a result, or local businesses are gonna be harmed as a result. Yeah. That's no solution. Yeah. And it's not a solution that's, even if it gets forced into place- Mm-hmm it's not a solution that's gonna stay in place. Right. Right? Yeah. And so the only way you can find a solution is for it to actually be a real solution, something that resolves the issue or reverses the decaying situation and gets it stably turned around and- Right headed in a pro-survival direction, you know? Yeah. And these things have to be done in gradients, they have to be done step by step. It can't be just, oh, okay, you know, w- we do this and everything's gonna be solved. It just doesn't, the world doesn't work that way. Exactly. Yeah. Well, and isn't there evidence of that, right? Like, we see that all the time, every day, every which way we turn, because we don't take the time to step back and do the aerial view. Right. We just keep going, going. Go. This is the way it's always been done, it's worked before, it's not broken. It's like, well, how do you know it's not broken? Have you really done the view that you need to really understand what the problem is before you start? Yeah. No. Y- you're spot on from my, from my viewpoint. Mm-hmm. The most important thing when people ask me for tips in life- Right you know, and what has made it possible for us to be as successful as we have been- Mm-hmm in finding real solutions and getting those solutions implemented, is the simple you know, suggestion or mandate- Yeah to look. Yeah. Right? Don't just listen. There's so many opinions out there that sound really nice- Right or really good or really smart, and that don't have, you know, that aren't accurate in terms of, you know, what the true source of something is or- Right how to really, how to really solve it. Right. And so you have to look. You can't just listen. Right. You have to go look and do, you know... Yeah. And, and then, you know, try something and look- Right did that work? Oh, it didn't work. Right. All right. Well, that's obviously not the right solution. How do we have- Right to fine-tune this so that it does work- Yeah right? Yeah. But yeah. I mean, we can sometimes, we've spent, you know, sometimes a few years- Mm searching, while we're doing other things, but researching a particular issue- Of course to really get all of the pieces of the puzzle put together. Yeah. So interesting when you look enough, whether it's a personal problem in your own life- Mm-hmm with your kids, with your husband- Yep with you know, your job, your boss, your company, whatever. Mm-hmm. If, if you've got a problem and you just start looking, you know- Right asking questions and looking, um, at a certain point the aha moment always happens. I love that. And at that aha moment, then, uh, a solution to it always just pops up. It's like, oh, if it, if that's the problem, well, okay, let's just- Right do this, right? Right. But if you, but if that solution isn't popping up- Right then you haven't gotten to the true, you haven't gotten to the bottom of it, of what- I love that. And you can, just like you're sharing right now, you can apply this to everything. It's a foundational piece. Yeah. Is to ask the questions. I know I talk a lot about that lens of curiosity. If you're... First you have to notice, right? First you have to realize there's something that's not now. What is it? What's going on? Get curious around it. One thing I want to ask you about is when you start your journey, whatever is coming into all the things, all the pieces of the pie that you have going on right now, when something starts at the first, there's an awareness that there's something that you want to look into. Do you find, um, more as you do the resourcing and finding out more about what's really going on, do you find that it's harder to get the information that's accurate by going wide and using a variety of sources? Like, how do you do that so that it's really comprehensive? Well, that's a really good question. But yeah, you do have to go wide. Mm-hmm. Because there are all the different factors involved in any equation, and you've gotta figure out- Sure first and foremost, w- what are all the factors here that we need to take into consideration? Right. who, who are the stakeholders in this? Right. Right? Yeah. Um, and then looking across, you know, all the different areas, individual people- Mm-hmm businesses- Mm-hmm commerce industry, uh, jobs- Mm economy, um, you know, the environment, the health of the environment, the health- Right of the people. Right. Um, uh, you know, the culture of the area, the y- you know, what's, what is considered to be good and what's considered to be bad, maybe totally good, you know. Uh, uh, it's one thing in one area and, and very different- Absolutely in another area, and that, that has to- Yeah be found as well. Mm-hmm. So it's, it, every single thing that we've taken on has been so fascinating. For example, a- and so different, right? Mm-hmm. Um, when the, when British Petroleum had that massive blowout in the Gulf of Mexico in 2010- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm uh, you know, the, it was so fascinating all of the different aspects that we had to take, all the different pieces of this puzzle we had to take into account- Mm-hmm and to find a solution that would actually m- you know, be, work for everyone and- Right get the waters cleaned up. Right. Right. Right. And it was just fascinating taking, you know, w- what's gonna work for the oil company, not just BP, but all the other oil companies- Of course that are working in that gulf. yeah. the people, the marine life, you know, the government- Mm-hmm the oil and gas industry. Mm-hmm. and taking all of these into account and then finding a solution that actually worked for everyone- Right was really interesting. And we, it didn't take, once we had, you know, looked at all these different factors, it didn't take us that long to actually- Mm come up with something that would have worked for everyone. Love it. Unfortunately at that time, the EPA was- Mm-hmm extremely corrupt. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Extremely corrupt. And, um, there were factors going on with them- Right that we had to investigate the EPA and find out- Right who was getting paid off by whom- Right to prevent the only real solution from being implemented. Okay. Yep That was, yeah, that's a whole other story Right? Whole other, right. Yeah. But that's a very, very different scene than, than for example, all the farmers and ranchers throughout the American Southwest who are desperate for water right now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, so you've got an entirely different culture there, an entirely different problem. Right. But one that we also found- Yep a solution for. Yeah. But, you know, um, yeah. Just anyway, it's, it's quite a challenge, but it is definitely, you know, it, it's definitely, to me it's definitely fascinating and been really interesting and very fulfilling. You know, when you can really find a solution and see it implemented and see everything in that area get better. Mm-hmm. Well, and that's gotta be, let me ask instead of assuming. Is that, uh, one of the main reasons or a very important reason as to why you continue to do the work that you do? Does it ever get tiring? I mean, I'm sure it's exhausting at times, but does it ever get like, "Yeah, I think I'm getting close to being finished with this"? Well, for me, no. Yeah. Because, you know, uh, I'm, I am so excited about our next project, right? Nice. And our next project is taking the last, all the lessons learned from the last 23 years, right? Mm-hmm. And we vetted a number of different solutions that, and implemented them so that we know these are real solutions. Yeah. and so, you know, I was looking at, all right, you know, we can continue doing a couple of projects at a time or something, right? Mm-hmm. But that's not gonna get us very far. That's not gonna d- have the kind of impact that we wanna have. Yes. Um, so how do we get this, these, all these technologies that we know about and these solutions, how do we get them implemented broadly around the world? Mm-hmm. And so, so the plan is that we have created, the beginning of what we have named the World Restoration Trade School. Oh, cool. and so right now we're in the property acquisition phase. Mm-hmm. We're finding the right property for it, and it's gonna be a live-in ranch retreat type of place, with a trade school curriculum based on, as I said, the lessons that we've learned over the last 23 years. Right. And create an army, if you will- Love it of graduated students who can go out around the world and, you know, apply these to solve the environmental issues in their areas. So I'm... You know, it's the next big game. It's the biggest thing I've ever taken on, and I'm really excited about it. I love what you're sharing because the impact and the lessons that you've learned over time are now going to be multiplied out into hands of more people, which means the results are going to be even that more far-reaching. Yes. I love that. Yes. Yes. I love that. Excited about it too, and we're planning to have a good proportion of the students will be veterans- Mm-hmm transitioning out of the military into civilian life. Beautiful. And looking for new constructive missions, if you will. Beautiful. I love that. Yeah. Oh. I just got chills. Love it. And curious, all the lessons you have learned through the work that you do in this beautiful world that we get to live in for a short period of time, how would you say or would you say that those have impacted you personally? It- it... Sorry, I didn't quite get the question. W- all of the lessons? Yeah. All of the, everything that you've learned through all the work you've done obviously have made an impact on you as an individual, as a person, as a human being. can you share some snippets or some nuggets or some learnings that you have been able to use, not only in your work, but have become part of who you are? Yes. A couple of things- Mm-hmm that immediately pop to mind, i- are that there are always solutions. Mm. There's never an i- a, you know, an unsolvable problem. Doesn't- Love that in my experience, it doesn't exist. There's always a solution. You just have to look. Mm. Right? And keep looking to find out what is the core source of the problem. Right. And then a solution will pop up of how to handle that. The other thing that is really interesting to me, that I apply all the time, and something I learned many years ago, is that, um, is that- If you're handling a situation, the first thing-- or you want to take your company or your family or- Mm-hmm your life, whatever, right? Sure. and make it better. If you want to step-by-step make it better, how do you do that? Mm-hmm. Well, the best thing to do is to take first sit down and describe if this was perfect- Mm-hmm if it was exactly the way I want it to be- Mm-hmm what would it look like? Right. And every, like, everything you can think of, every part of it, right, r- really list out, like, what would this be if it was perfect. And then look and see, okay, what is the greatest departure from that ideal scene, right? Yeah. And I use the analogy that if you were on the Titanic and- Mm you've hit the iceberg- Mm-hmm there's 1,000 things you can do on that ship to make it better, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You can, you know, get the people who've fallen off the ship back on. You can- Mm-hmm rearrange the deck chairs so they're more aesthetically pleasing. You can, uh, you know, create a beautiful new, uh, you know, food menu for the passengers, right? Yep. Yeah. But if you're not handling the hole in the hull- Yeah it's all for naught. It's going down. Right. And it's true in any situation. If you look at what's the ideal scene, and then- Yeah what's the greatest departure, and I call it what's the hole in the hull? Yeah. And if you focus all your attention on fixing that- right, then you've moved that whole situation one step closer to the ideal scene, right? Right. If you do anything else, it might be nice, you know, threaten to sue the- sue the, the shipping line or, you know, whatever, but the ship's going down. Right. Now, this analogy f- falls apart because, you know, at the point where, uh, you know, with the Titanic, they couldn't fix the hole in the hull. Right. Okay, then what do you do? You get people off the ship- Right as many as you can into the lifeboats and, right? Right. That's something. Yeah. But, but if you just keep finding, okay, what's the hole in the hull now, right? Mm-hmm. And you fix that, you've moved the whole scene one step closer- Closer to that ideal scene. And that's how you can take any situation and stably, y- you know- Mm keep it towards a better and better, you know, situation. Mm-hmm. And it's really, it's, it makes a lot of sense. Mm-hmm. But it's one of those things that's kind of so obvious that nobo- you know, very few people- operate that way. Right. You know? Right. That whatever pops up, you know, the Whac-A-Mole kind of thing. Yeah. Whatever pops up, okay, that's what I'm gonna handle right now. Okay. Instead of going, "No, what's the thing underneath it that's making these things pop up?" Absolutely. Handle that. Absolutely. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's the source? Yeah. Like you've shared already. Yeah. What's the source? What's really going on underneath- Yeah the hood of the car? It's making a noise. It's not working right. Get in there and actually do the right analysis. Get sure on what the noise is coming from. Yeah. Yeah. One thing, do you notice when people start fi- looking at the hole in the hole, um, and I don't know if you've noticed this, I notice this in my, in, in the work that I do with clients that I have and moving them from just sticking in the, "Well, it, I just, there's no solu- I can't do it. It's too deep. It's too big. It's too wide." Is there any tips you have on keeping that big vision alive? That's something you do extremely well. You never lose sight of your vision. You keep adding to your vision. Right. You never lose sight of it. No. How do you do that? You know- I don't know how to answer that question other than you just do it. It's okay. You know? Once you've defined it and you know what it is- Mm-hmm you know, then keep that mountain in sight. Mm-hmm. Just keep that mountain in sight. You know, if you need to, you know, put a big sign over your desk that says, uh Yeah what the goal is. Yeah. You know, just keep that in sight. And the... There's always gonna be ups and downs. There's always gonna be- Yeah challenges and problems and, oh my God, how do we- Hey handle this? Yeah. you know, but if you know that's where you're going and you keep- Yeah that in mind- Mm-hmm then these other things just become, okay, you know, how do we- Yep move this one off the line or resolve it so we can take the next step towards it? Yeah. Love that. Love that. Thank you. Yeah. Is there a way that, Earth Organization works differently than other, let's say, well-intentioned environmental groups? I think so. We have a very specific what we call standard operating procedure. Mm-hmm. And whatever issue or situation we take on- Mm-hmm we walk it through these steps. Mm. And sometimes these steps can take a long time to get done, you know? One might be short, another might take a long time to get done. Right. But we walk through these steps, and there's six of them. Okay. And the first one is we first, let's... We hear about some environmental situation from wherever, right? Sure. The first thing we do is we research it enough to make sure it actually does exist. Hmm. There you go. Yep. Not just some other agenda, you know- Yeah that run through the media or whatever, that- Sure does this actually exist? Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. And is it important enough to take on, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, it may exist, but it may be, like, really not a big deal. Right. Yeah. So is this, does it exist and is it important to take on? Then step two is if it is- Mm-hmm then we do all necessary research to, again- Mm-hmm find the source of the problem. Right. The honest to God source of the problem. And interestingly, from my experience over the past 23 years, it's never what's being promoted in the media, ever. Yeah, yeah. It's always something different, and it may be- Mm-hmm a little bit different, you know, just a- Mm-hmm twist on it or it may be wildly different. Right, yeah. But, but it just, it, the media is not a source of accurate information. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, so once we've found the honest to gosh source of it, right? Mm-hmm. Then step three is good. Now do the research to find a real solution- Mm-hmm that will work for everybody involved. Right, yep. Right. Yep. Then step four is once we have that, then we, depending on the situation, we either implement it ourselves- Yep or we get it into the hands of another group that will competently do so. Okay. Right? Yep. Perfect. Yep and then step five, and that can take quite a while. I mean, we've spent seven years- Mm-hmm creating another company that we could take our water location technology and get it into their hands so that- Sure they're competently using it, competently- Yeah finding water for farmers and ranchers and AI data centers and stuff around the world. Mm-hmm. Um- Mm-hmm then so once that's done- Mm-hmm then step five is we take all the lessons that we learned from steps one to four- Yep and put the educational materials. And it might be a white paper for a government regulator. Mm-hmm. It might be a children's book. Yeah, of course. If it's something kind of you could see change in social viewpoint- Yeah type thing, right? So but it, whatever it is appropriate so that those lessons aren't lost. Lost, yeah. Is the key. And then step six is go find the next environmental- Yeah. gone and put it through the steps, you know, one at a time. Same steps, yeah. Yeah. So that's, I think, you know, I don't know of any other group that has that kind of an organized layout of how they operate. Mm-hmm. And, um- Yeah. And so I think that makes us unique, and it makes us uniquely effective. Absolutely. Yeah it really made it possible for us to be successful at- Mm-hmm at what we've taken on. Mm-hmm. Wonderful. Yeah. Absolutely incredible. I know we've tapped into a lot. Is there anything that you would love to share with our audience, women thriving after 45 who might be feeling stuck, might be feeling like, "Ah, how am I gonna do this for you, by you, because of you?" I know Denise talks like that all the time. Is there any extra golden nugget? You've given so much, and I can see so many parallels, not only through the work that you do, which is so incredible, and we're so grateful for everything that you and Lawrence had started way back when, got you on the train, and you are now flying in the sky with all of this and moving mountains with the work that you do. Is there anything that you could share with the audience that you think, "You know what? If I can leave you with this final nugget, I'll be happy." Well, that's a g- that's a good question. O- one thing that I would like to leave them with as a final nugget is that we could use some help. There we go. Yeah. We do. We need help. We need volunteers. We need, um, you know, we need financial support. Mm-hmm we're a non-profit, right? So there's- Right always that aspect- Yeah of it, of like, you know- Sure how far can you extend your solutions? Mm-hmm. You know, depends in great measure as to how, if you've got the funds to y- you know, to, to do that. Absolutely. So, so if somebody w- likes what they've heard and wants to get- Mm-hmm wants to be a supporter, wants to get involved with us- Mm-hmm some way, please contact us through, through- Yeah you know, our website or- Right email at info@theearthorganization.org. Don't forget the. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Info@theearthorganization.org. Um, a- as far as a tip, you know, I just, Denise, I think you're such an inspiration. I would tell your listeners to keep listening to you, and be, you know, and, uh, take some chances. Mm, yeah. You know? Take some chances, and have- Mm-hmm fun with it. Yeah. If it's not fun, it's, there's something wrong. Yeah. If it's not fun, there's something wrong, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so just, like, y- it doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be saving the world types of goals. Yeah. But, uh, you know, but pick something that you love. Yeah. You know? Doing, painting, whatever, you know? But grab it, and then do it. take the plunge. Mm-hmm. You know? And have, have fun with it. Yeah. and we talk about this a lot in this show, that we never know when our last breath is going to be. So the longer we keep our heels in the ground, and, "Well, is it me?" Here's a perfect example. Look at what Barbara's done. She said the doors have opened in ways that she couldn't even have imagined, and her big, big dreams are coming true. Not because she just thought about them and they stayed in the frontal cortex all the time. She took action, and she did that for you, by you, because of you. She did it because she was motivated to do it, just to see what would happen. And it didn't happen overnight, right? N- good things don't. We've talked about that in the show today. Good things take time, and we don't know how much time we have, so start today, whatever that is. Yeah. Even if it's taking a minute to yourself just to breathe, do it for you, by you- Yeah because of you. Start small. You don't have to jump into the deep end, right? One of my, one of my favorite concepts, because it's been so true for me in life- Mm-hmm is that happiness is not necessarily the achieving of a goal. Of course, there's happiness connected to that. But happiness is very much the moving forward- Mm towards that goal. Yeah. And being aware of what the goal is and what are the steps that you, you know, feel you need to take to get there. Yeah. And then seeing, oh, wow, I just m- you know, made another step towards that goal. Yeah. And th- and there's happiness- Mm connected with that is just intrinsic. Mm-hmm. And so it is, you know, just take a step. Could be a baby step, doesn't matter. But- Yeah yeah. Yeah. And you will be the one to know that you've taken a step. Exactly. A lot of people behind the scenes, even in your household, don't understand the depth with which you are thinking, rehearsing, talking to yourself, and those steps that you take are for you, by you, because of you, and nobody else even needs to know. If that doesn't resonate, then just do your thing. It's okay, right? Yeah. Love it. Exactly. Exactly. All of the details and ways to get in touch with Barbara are going to be in the show notes. So we will make sure all the contact information and the info at theearthorganization.org are in the show notes, so you can just click it and send the email right away. And before we close, I wanna tell everyone about a room of our own that is coming up this November. I am hosting a live in-person experience November 12th and 13th called Ignite the Inner Uprising. It's gonna be a two-day immersive gathering for women in midlife years who are feeling this quiet pull towards something more truthful, embodied, more fully your own. Ignite, it's an extension of these conversations where reflection becomes embodiment and insight starts to become integrated, and women who have carried so much for so many others finally get to stand in our own sovereignty. So if there's something in today's conversation that stirred inside of you, if you started leaning in going, "Oh, I'm thinking about this," that is not accidental. So the wait list is open, so if Ignite seems like something your future self is wanting and would love to thank you for, I invite you to add your name to that list for November 12th and 13th, and we are hosting it in Vancouver, Canada. And as always, make sure that you follow, like, share, leave us a review so more women can find these incredible conversations that we have on Thrive After 45, because we know when one woman turns her light on, the rest of the room catches fire. Barbara, thank you again for being here with us today. We so appreciate all that you are doing in this world, and we know every buddy, every environment, every creature benefits greatly. Thank you. Thank, thank you so much, and thank you for what you're doing. This is a wonderful program, and, and I'm sure you've helped and will continue to help a lot of women. We are here to help one another, because we can't do it alone. I never believed that for a minute. So thank you again, and we will see you on Thrive After 45 again. Bye, everyone.