Find Your True Purpose In Midlife with Dr. Shafer

WEBVTT

00:00:00.068 --> 00:00:10.109
Hello and welcome to Thrive After 45, the podcast where we redefine the significance of you for you by you because of you.

00:00:10.144 --> 00:00:18.256
I'm Denise, drink Walter, a midlife renewal coach here to help women embrace their power, purpose, and potential.

00:00:18.309 --> 00:00:21.730
This show is your space to explore what's possible.

00:00:21.742 --> 00:00:35.140
When you prioritize you through inspiring conversations, expert insights, and real stories, we'll uncover how to navigate transitions, rediscover joy thrive inside and out.

00:00:35.261 --> 00:00:41.067
It's time to let go of guilt and fully embrace the life waiting for you.

00:00:41.085 --> 00:00:47.445
This is the Thrive After 45 podcast, and it is your time to thrive for you.

00:00:47.450 --> 00:00:49.328
By you because of you.

00:00:49.362 --> 00:00:54.719
It is such an honor and a privilege to welcome Dr.

00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:57.539
Schafer Rin to our show today.

00:00:57.600 --> 00:00:58.110
Dr.

00:00:58.110 --> 00:01:01.680
Schafer is a multi-passionate powerhouse.

00:01:02.011 --> 00:01:06.540
A physician turns transformational coach podcaster, speaker.

00:01:06.870 --> 00:01:22.171
Bestselling author who brings a unique and refreshing voice to the world of growth and mindset with a medical degree earned in 2011 and a life coaching journey that began in 2024.

00:01:22.561 --> 00:01:22.950
Dr.

00:01:22.950 --> 00:01:32.611
Schaeffer has dedicated herself to helping others rise above limiting beliefs and embrace a life of intentional.

00:01:32.850 --> 00:01:33.781
Transformation.

00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:39.120
She is the voice behind the Inspiring podcast talks with Dr.

00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:57.331
Schaeffer and the author of two thought provoking books, including International Bestseller Cracking the Rich Code Volume 16, and Her upcoming release, which we're gonna chat about, I hope, the Boy and his brightly colored blocks, which is, has.

00:01:58.555 --> 00:02:02.725
Actually just launched right May 6th in 2025.

00:02:03.506 --> 00:02:11.485
Her message is clear and consistent across her platforms, whether she's on YouTube, TikTok, Spotify, or Instagram.

00:02:12.145 --> 00:02:13.496
She meets people where they are.

00:02:14.230 --> 00:02:21.311
Guides them through with compassion and clarity toward personal freedom and purpose.

00:02:21.371 --> 00:02:26.681
Through her content coaching and recently launched Publishing House, Dr.

00:02:26.681 --> 00:02:39.431
Schaeffer supports both individuals and businesses in challenging their mindset blocks, unlocking potential, and stepping into a version of themselves they maybe didn't even believe was.

00:02:39.455 --> 00:02:40.445
Possible.

00:02:40.895 --> 00:02:44.256
She has roots in music and Deca and Dec.

00:02:44.316 --> 00:02:49.026
Decades long dedication to writing and editing.

00:02:49.385 --> 00:02:56.015
Add a creative dimension to her work that's both powerful and deeply personal.

00:02:56.556 --> 00:02:57.036
Dr.

00:02:57.036 --> 00:03:02.075
Schaefer, we are absolutely thrilled to have you here with us today.

00:03:02.075 --> 00:03:04.955
Welcome to Thrive after 45.

00:03:06.145 --> 00:03:08.246
Denise, thank you so much for having me.

00:03:08.246 --> 00:03:21.265
It's such a pleasure to be here and to be in this space where you are creating an environment that encourages us to thrive because as as obvious as it sounds.

00:03:21.545 --> 00:03:28.295
But it's what we should do if we really take stock of our lives and how we have over time, set them up.

00:03:28.626 --> 00:03:37.895
We may find, I think many of us find that we and those around us have constructed a life that doesn't necessarily allow us to thrive as we really should be.

00:03:38.756 --> 00:04:01.645
I love what you're saying because I, I noticed this too, and I, and what I see, and let me correct me if I'm wrong or add to this piece, but what happens is we don't even understand what Thrive really means because we haven't probably experienced what, or if we have, it's in little snippets and then it dies.

00:04:02.246 --> 00:04:02.635
Right?

00:04:02.695 --> 00:04:02.906
Yeah.

00:04:03.385 --> 00:04:04.661
I love what you said about.

00:04:05.711 --> 00:04:09.881
In your introduction about that you should be thriving, right?

00:04:09.881 --> 00:04:11.770
Like you should be thriving and.

00:04:13.075 --> 00:04:16.105
Do it for you because of you.

00:04:16.255 --> 00:04:33.896
And I think that's really important because when we talk about development, sometimes it's more palatable to discuss the, the benefits of personal development on the people you love, on your children, on your spouse, your partner at work, the people that you serve through your work.

00:04:33.956 --> 00:04:36.505
And that can be a good icebreaker.

00:04:36.641 --> 00:04:45.370
For helping people to start to take those steps and start to, instead of leaning out and doing everything for everyone, start to care for yourself.

00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:49.031
Understand yourself, development yourself, and often.

00:04:49.721 --> 00:04:56.891
The first bite of it, the first taste we have of that is by, oh, I'm gonna get better for the people I love because we've been doing that our whole lives.

00:04:56.891 --> 00:04:59.350
We've been doing everything for everyone else.

00:04:59.350 --> 00:05:06.161
So I really love how intentional you are about saying you are doing this for you because of you.

00:05:06.730 --> 00:05:07.480
Exactly.

00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:13.180
And, and the other piece that I think is very interesting is that nobody else can do it for you.

00:05:14.531 --> 00:05:19.930
Because you're the only one who has the capacity to do it for you, by you because of you.

00:05:19.930 --> 00:05:29.711
So when you take that time and whatever that needs to be for you, I know a lot of my clients feel, oh, isn't that selfish?

00:05:29.711 --> 00:05:35.800
Isn't that, you know, given, and that's where the, where we start to do the dis disruption.

00:05:36.081 --> 00:05:46.701
Of the belief and you, I know you do all kinds of great work around limiting beliefs and sometimes we don't even realize that we have a belief system that is limiting us.

00:05:46.701 --> 00:05:50.901
How do you help people even uncover.

00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:52.841
Limiting beliefs per se.

00:05:53.321 --> 00:05:54.040
Hmm.

00:05:54.310 --> 00:05:59.860
Well I was just leaning into what you were saying, and it's really fun when coaches talk to one another because you're like, Ooh.

00:05:59.860 --> 00:06:00.071
Yeah.

00:06:00.071 --> 00:06:03.730
Like what tools, you know, what is your, what is your process?

00:06:03.730 --> 00:06:14.531
You know, because it's so enriching and interesting to learn how we all are trying to approach this because coaching is a different skillset than.

00:06:14.745 --> 00:06:17.115
Anything you've ever done before in your life.

00:06:17.446 --> 00:06:23.656
Most people, when you really learn what it is to be a coach, think, wow, that's fascinating.

00:06:24.225 --> 00:06:26.326
It's just listening.

00:06:26.326 --> 00:06:26.355
I.

00:06:26.966 --> 00:06:30.956
And asking curious questions and not having an agenda.

00:06:31.286 --> 00:06:32.576
Well, how hard is that?

00:06:32.875 --> 00:06:34.555
That's really hard.

00:06:35.336 --> 00:06:46.795
It's really hard because we are all so trained to do all of those things and to have these conversations that are kind of like a game of, of tennis.

00:06:47.605 --> 00:06:49.466
And so we've, we've hit this ball back and forth.

00:06:49.466 --> 00:06:50.696
We had this conversation.

00:06:50.696 --> 00:06:54.266
Lots of words were said, they were spoken, but we walk away and.

00:06:55.540 --> 00:06:56.860
That's that, right?

00:06:56.860 --> 00:06:59.321
I mean, how many great memories did you ever form?

00:06:59.500 --> 00:07:12.341
You may enjoy tennis, you may enjoy what it brings to you physically, but during that back and forth, you're not making those memories that you're gonna remember in the final moments of your life and say, gosh, I'm so glad I had that.

00:07:13.391 --> 00:07:22.901
But when you sat with a friend or a colleague and you stopped talking and you got out of your own head of thinking, how can I make this better for this person?

00:07:23.771 --> 00:07:33.130
You sat with them, you heard them, and you just went along with them on this journey, rather than trying to decide where do they need to go on the journey.

00:07:34.391 --> 00:07:38.141
And through that, we've been so trained to think that's a failure.

00:07:38.170 --> 00:07:40.240
'cause we didn't solve the problem for them.

00:07:41.755 --> 00:08:01.495
But what we did was empower them through our presence and as we, you know, learn things like coaching, as we learn things about curious questions, and we recognize no asking someone the curious question and really hearing the answer and then gently challenging, you know?

00:08:01.555 --> 00:08:07.136
Okay, so why, why do you think you need to do that for that person?

00:08:08.500 --> 00:08:11.380
Did the person, did they ask you to do that?

00:08:11.500 --> 00:08:11.860
Mm-hmm.

00:08:12.401 --> 00:08:15.100
You know, how many times has someone asked us that question?

00:08:15.100 --> 00:08:18.161
You know, because we might avoid that sort of question.

00:08:18.161 --> 00:08:22.091
'cause that might be interpreted as an in insult or as shaming.

00:08:22.091 --> 00:08:22.180
Mm-hmm.

00:08:22.690 --> 00:08:30.880
But it's such a great question to ask the people pleaser, the over giver, the overstretch, or did they ask you to do that?

00:08:30.880 --> 00:08:31.661
Mm-hmm.

00:08:32.186 --> 00:08:36.326
And then to say, okay, they didn't, and then this thing happened.

00:08:36.326 --> 00:08:38.696
This, you know, inevitably bad thing happened.

00:08:38.725 --> 00:08:41.666
'cause you did something for someone that they didn't ask for, they didn't want.

00:08:43.946 --> 00:08:47.755
Okay, let's get out of the consequences of that for them.

00:08:48.821 --> 00:08:52.480
Why do you think you felt compelled to do that?

00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:52.691
Mm-hmm.

00:08:52.931 --> 00:09:00.086
And getting down to the heart of the matter, and it's just, it's so beautiful and I know I've gotten down into a rabbit hole of coaching, but it's okay.

00:09:00.671 --> 00:09:04.150
It's so inspiring to have conversations with people like you because.

00:09:05.291 --> 00:09:16.541
These are the moments and the connections when we learn how to communicate in this very different way, that it's not like the tennis game that we had we walked away from, and that was that.

00:09:16.900 --> 00:09:28.150
These are how we make really genuine, meaningful connections with people and learn about them and create stories that we're so proud to tell about our own lives.

00:09:29.696 --> 00:09:39.296
I love that, bringing yourself into the conversation through a connection, not through, um, the lens of helping them solve.

00:09:40.061 --> 00:09:46.841
An a problem that you don't even know really, or understand the depth of what they're going through.

00:09:47.140 --> 00:09:57.250
So what's coming up for me as you're sharing your, your thoughts and, and brilliance of course, is the, is the power and act of listening.

00:09:57.630 --> 00:10:02.850
And really grasping what that is.

00:10:03.181 --> 00:10:14.581
When I was, um, teaching many years ago when I was a behavior resource teacher, the power of not only active listening, but observation.

00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:32.650
I couldn't ever explain the importance of observing, so now I'm, I'm even looking differently at the way that I have conversations and the way that I observe others in conversations.

00:10:32.650 --> 00:10:37.841
So there's so many moving parts, and when we allow ourselves that.

00:10:37.936 --> 00:10:44.115
Openness, that ability to just be present in the energy and the conversation.

00:10:44.775 --> 00:10:51.076
Everything can change for both, all parties, however many people are involved in the conversation.

00:10:51.076 --> 00:10:53.865
Do you find that Absolutely.

00:10:53.926 --> 00:10:54.436
Absolutely.

00:10:54.436 --> 00:11:01.485
Bring yourself into the conversation and you know, you talked about tools, you hinted at tools, you know, how do you do that?

00:11:01.485 --> 00:11:03.015
How do you start that with people?

00:11:03.596 --> 00:11:16.706
And I think one interesting thing to do, if you find that you're a people pleaser and you're a space filler, so you walk into a room, let's say it's a party, um, and let's say you've got kids in school, and so it's, it's people you don't really know that well.

00:11:16.706 --> 00:11:17.155
Sure, right.

00:11:17.155 --> 00:11:28.975
And you're hopeful to make connections with them, to bond, maybe to have someone to go to coffee with on Saturday morning to connect with over the shared experience of life and having teenagers, et cetera.

00:11:29.395 --> 00:11:29.666
Right.

00:11:29.666 --> 00:11:32.245
So you walk into the party and.

00:11:33.096 --> 00:11:41.285
If you're that people pleasing person who's trying to basically set out these, almost like fishing lines, trying to get someone to bite on them.

00:11:41.525 --> 00:11:41.615
Yeah.

00:11:41.615 --> 00:11:48.785
And you're setting all these hooks of, okay, I'm gonna, okay, the weather's too bland, so I know that this is popular in my area.

00:11:48.966 --> 00:11:50.046
I'm gonna do that.

00:11:50.046 --> 00:11:52.025
Or I know that this is popular with them.

00:11:52.025 --> 00:11:52.895
I'm gonna do that.

00:11:52.926 --> 00:11:57.755
And you're kind of setting the stage for having conversations that you may not even.

00:11:58.005 --> 00:11:58.936
Care about.

00:11:58.936 --> 00:12:02.716
So now you've started the conversation and you don't know where to go with it.

00:12:02.926 --> 00:12:04.000
There's the awkward silence.

00:12:04.071 --> 00:12:04.360
Well.

00:12:04.841 --> 00:12:10.211
Nice, nice meeting you, and you walk away and you're wondering, why am I not making friends?

00:12:10.211 --> 00:12:13.691
Why is it so hard at this stage of my life to make friends?

00:12:13.780 --> 00:12:20.410
And a big part of that is starting to reset the way we try to connect with others, even in a very casual way.

00:12:20.416 --> 00:12:20.635
Mm-hmm.

00:12:20.921 --> 00:12:28.211
To instead of trying to figure out what everyone else wants from us to show up as our authentic selves.

00:12:29.081 --> 00:12:45.071
As you said, to be very intentional and an observer and a good listener, and then decide, huh, is this someone, and this is something I really work with my children on, is this someone that I would like to spend more time with?

00:12:45.910 --> 00:12:46.331
Right?

00:12:46.331 --> 00:12:51.880
Because that is really where the magic happens, is when you meet someone that.

00:12:52.331 --> 00:12:57.311
You want to spend more time with, and that's mutual.

00:12:57.311 --> 00:13:02.201
They have this mutual experience, and it's not that you have formed.

00:13:03.221 --> 00:13:06.370
Some sort of transient conversation, right?

00:13:06.370 --> 00:13:11.740
What, what you hoped was a bond over something that doesn't really matter to you, that's not gonna be a relationship.

00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:15.551
And then you'll have invested some time, which all of us have very little of.

00:13:15.551 --> 00:13:15.671
Mm-hmm.

00:13:16.301 --> 00:13:21.910
And you'll go to coffee and you'll go home and you'll just kind of think, what, what am I doing with this?

00:13:21.941 --> 00:13:23.291
I'm not forming the connections.

00:13:23.291 --> 00:13:24.520
It just doesn't seem to work.

00:13:24.520 --> 00:13:25.270
Why is it happening?

00:13:25.270 --> 00:13:25.780
And so.

00:13:26.005 --> 00:13:40.046
When we feel that dissonance in our lives, instead of looking outward and blaming, oh, I just can't connect with this person, or that, or this, um, or maybe we're from a different social stratosphere, whatever you wanna tell yourself, it's not working.

00:13:40.855 --> 00:13:46.466
I think it can be really helpful to look inward and think, who am I showing up as And mm-hmm.

00:13:47.096 --> 00:13:48.355
Is it me?

00:13:48.385 --> 00:13:55.525
Because if I'm showing up as someone else, of course I'm not making those deep, authentic connections with people that I really want to make.

00:13:57.086 --> 00:14:23.875
Is it helpful for people to look at what you're saying and go, okay, so what friendships do I have in my life right now that I truly, truly value to help them reflect back what it is that makes that so valuable and how they can reframe themselves in new environments to be more authentic.

00:14:24.306 --> 00:14:25.326
At the end of the day.

00:14:25.865 --> 00:14:39.306
Yeah, it, it Is there something you said earlier that I don't know about how you are with coaching and with conversations like this, but for me, I'll have a phrase pop up or a visualization or color, something that really resonates with me.

00:14:39.546 --> 00:14:49.265
And it may just be the way my brain works, but something you said earlier really made me think about how we remember how someone.

00:14:49.306 --> 00:14:50.535
Makes us feel.

00:14:50.535 --> 00:14:50.625
Mm-hmm.

00:14:51.015 --> 00:14:54.046
We don't remember what they say.

00:14:54.196 --> 00:14:54.556
Right.

00:14:54.556 --> 00:14:58.666
And something you said earlier really resonated with that quote for me.

00:14:59.926 --> 00:15:07.035
And so I think a great place to start to really just kind of get rid of the, oh, well I have this connection because our kids do this together.

00:15:07.035 --> 00:15:09.975
I have this connection because you know, we did this, whatever.

00:15:10.096 --> 00:15:12.166
And to really get down to the heart of the matter of.

00:15:12.181 --> 00:15:14.100
I have X amount of time and energy.

00:15:14.701 --> 00:15:28.711
Who in my life reenergizes me rather than depletes me Because maybe I'm at, I'm at a phase in my life where I've literally nothing left to give and you and I were talking before we came on air, like I'm kind of in a place in my life where it's.

00:15:29.576 --> 00:15:37.946
I have very limited resources, and so if someone's in my orbit, it, it really needs to be something that energizes me.

00:15:38.186 --> 00:15:50.005
And I think when you take stock of not only your friendships, but what you're using your energy on in general, which is, it could be anything from as big as, do I want this big house?

00:15:50.365 --> 00:15:50.546
Yeah.

00:15:50.666 --> 00:15:53.395
Does this big house bring me joy and energize me?

00:15:53.395 --> 00:15:56.035
Or are there, is there a laundry list of things that.

00:15:56.725 --> 00:15:59.035
Drive me crazy about the fact that I have this big house.

00:15:59.216 --> 00:16:05.216
It can be from friendships to the size of your home where you live, your job.

00:16:05.275 --> 00:16:15.956
All of these are opportunities to kind of check your batteries and find out like, do I need to just change the batteries, go about this differently, or do I need to actually update.

00:16:16.270 --> 00:16:16.750
New.

00:16:16.750 --> 00:16:18.280
An update of my iOS.

00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:18.490
Right.

00:16:18.490 --> 00:16:19.421
New software.

00:16:19.421 --> 00:16:19.900
Right?

00:16:20.051 --> 00:16:23.471
Because the old system is depleting me and I need a new system.

00:16:24.551 --> 00:16:34.870
And everything you're talking about and sharing, I'm smiling from inside out because I'm, you are talking about.

00:16:35.245 --> 00:16:40.735
Looking at everything through the lens of for you, by you, because of you.

00:16:40.916 --> 00:16:50.035
And when we do this work, and I'm not even call, I don't like to call it work because I like to call it awareness and growth.

00:16:50.605 --> 00:16:57.475
Um, because when, as soon as the W words put with it, people are like, oh, but I can't do that'cause I don't have a the time, blah, blah, blah.

00:16:57.535 --> 00:16:57.596
Yeah.

00:16:58.015 --> 00:17:03.745
If we reframe and start to do it from our center.

00:17:04.601 --> 00:17:28.990
I can tell you, you know, all your clients, all the people that you touch with your work, know that when you start doing this work for you, by you because of you, your what I call sphere of influence will change around you without you having to lift a finger and make it happen because your energy speaks and it changes everything.

00:17:30.631 --> 00:17:30.750
Hmm.

00:17:31.076 --> 00:17:31.945
It does.

00:17:32.036 --> 00:17:38.726
And you know, one thing I, I notice that I don't talk about often, but I've done a short talk on my podcast.

00:17:38.726 --> 00:17:46.976
I tend to do guest episodes and then I do short talks where we talk about mindset things and also from a neuroscience perspective.

00:17:48.070 --> 00:17:49.661
The science behind that.

00:17:49.661 --> 00:17:49.871
Right.

00:17:49.871 --> 00:17:57.490
And the importance of changing our habits and changing our beliefs because those are actually wirings in us.

00:17:57.490 --> 00:17:57.580
Mm-hmm.

00:17:57.611 --> 00:17:59.740
You know, this isn't Woohoo stuff.

00:18:00.191 --> 00:18:00.250
Yeah.

00:18:00.611 --> 00:18:02.230
This is really real.

00:18:02.230 --> 00:18:08.711
It's our neuroscience, it's tracks in our brain that lead us to follow different behaviors and habits.

00:18:09.066 --> 00:18:14.526
That if we don't disrupt them, and you use that term earlier, you have to disrupt.

00:18:15.036 --> 00:18:17.375
And that's where I think when you use the term work.

00:18:18.280 --> 00:18:26.230
It is work and it's work in the sense of like a workout, but for your life, not just for your muscles, right?

00:18:26.441 --> 00:18:30.101
Workouts, when you start them, they are painful.

00:18:30.671 --> 00:18:36.310
I can remember I had a period of time where I wasn't exercising much and I had a C-section with my, my last child.

00:18:36.310 --> 00:18:40.510
So, you know, things were cut, muscles hurt, my body didn't bend the same way.

00:18:40.510 --> 00:18:41.260
It didn't feel good.

00:18:41.530 --> 00:18:42.701
Um, and then when I.

00:18:42.721 --> 00:18:45.421
Exercised really intentionally again.

00:18:45.631 --> 00:18:45.691
Yeah.

00:18:45.715 --> 00:18:46.006
Yeah.

00:18:46.010 --> 00:18:48.270
And I got my body to a place of strength.

00:18:48.510 --> 00:18:53.520
I mean, there were times where that really hurt, especially, you know, around the side of my incision.

00:18:53.550 --> 00:18:53.971
Ouch.

00:18:53.971 --> 00:18:55.411
It was really uncomfortable.

00:18:55.711 --> 00:18:58.651
But once I got past that breaking to build.

00:18:59.215 --> 00:19:01.855
Point of working out.

00:19:02.096 --> 00:19:02.185
Mm-hmm.

00:19:02.425 --> 00:19:05.996
Then I got to a place of strength and I, I will never forget.

00:19:06.086 --> 00:19:14.036
It's such a silly example, but it is the moment and it's funny'cause these are the little moments in our lives that we are assured that we're on the right path.

00:19:14.036 --> 00:19:15.026
It's the little things.

00:19:15.026 --> 00:19:17.605
It's not the big stuff, it's the little things.

00:19:18.115 --> 00:19:26.246
I was cleaning my bathtub and we have this really big, kind of unusually large, strange, uh, rectangular bathtub.

00:19:26.425 --> 00:19:28.465
And to clean it, you have to kind of like.

00:19:28.826 --> 00:19:30.385
Act like you're Spider Woman a bit.

00:19:30.476 --> 00:19:30.655
Yeah.

00:19:32.605 --> 00:19:39.445
And it was always a bit uncomfortable and strange, and I'm Spider Woman womanning over it.

00:19:39.685 --> 00:19:46.615
And I felt great, and I had great balance, and I felt strong and I could bend and move in ways that I couldn't before.

00:19:46.885 --> 00:19:47.846
And I thought, huh.

00:19:48.641 --> 00:19:50.020
This is what it's all for.

00:19:50.080 --> 00:19:51.550
It's not to look better.

00:19:52.691 --> 00:19:52.780
Yeah.

00:19:52.780 --> 00:19:54.580
It's not to lose weight.

00:19:55.300 --> 00:19:57.760
It's not for clothes to fit differently.

00:19:57.760 --> 00:20:06.490
It's so that when I am living my life, my function is so much better and more comfortable, and I have this feeling of like, wow, I can do things I couldn't do before.

00:20:06.701 --> 00:20:09.101
And it's the same with our mindset.

00:20:09.101 --> 00:20:11.500
It's, it's painful at first.

00:20:11.530 --> 00:20:11.621
Mm-hmm.

00:20:11.861 --> 00:20:13.300
To make those disruptions.

00:20:14.145 --> 00:20:24.346
But once you get through that messy middle of everything being hard and new, and you're practicing and it's awkward, and maybe you feel like I haven't done something new since I was in college or since I was in grade school.

00:20:24.766 --> 00:20:33.945
Once you get through that point and you're really living your beliefs and living authentically and in alignment with who you want to be, the feeling of.

00:20:34.026 --> 00:20:43.806
Strength and accomplishment and just, wow, if I can do that, if I can stop living that way and start living my life this way, what can I do?

00:20:44.076 --> 00:20:48.276
It's so exciting and it's worth all of the work because it it is work.

00:20:48.276 --> 00:20:50.375
It's worth the investment in you.

00:20:50.375 --> 00:20:51.546
Right, right.

00:20:51.605 --> 00:20:52.205
I love that.

00:20:52.205 --> 00:20:53.111
The investment in you.

00:20:53.861 --> 00:20:56.471
Because you are worthy of that investment.

00:20:57.040 --> 00:21:03.881
You mentioned earlier all the things we do for our children and our families and you know, there's never a second thought.

00:21:03.881 --> 00:21:08.800
If your child needs support for whatever purpose, you're on it, you will drive them.

00:21:08.800 --> 00:21:12.131
You will do without a second thought.

00:21:12.250 --> 00:21:21.461
And my goal is to help women worldwide have that same response that they would have for their children.

00:21:21.641 --> 00:21:21.971
Right.

00:21:22.270 --> 00:21:23.141
For themselves.

00:21:23.230 --> 00:21:23.471
Yeah.

00:21:23.530 --> 00:21:23.891
Yeah.

00:21:24.250 --> 00:21:25.151
That's beautiful.

00:21:25.300 --> 00:21:29.500
Because you can't be there for your children if you're abandoning yourself.

00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:36.550
And in that moment you may feel, and I've, I've had a client who's very self abandoning and it took years, years of work.

00:21:36.580 --> 00:21:36.671
Mm-hmm.

00:21:36.911 --> 00:21:44.800
Because there was such a deeply entrenched belief that pouring.

00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:52.300
A hundred percent out of their cup and giving the cup away to their children was love.

00:21:52.365 --> 00:21:52.655
Yeah.

00:21:53.441 --> 00:21:53.951
Yeah.

00:21:54.221 --> 00:21:56.800
And it took so much time for this individual to.

00:21:57.641 --> 00:22:03.401
Have him to understand that he was modeling self abandonment.

00:22:03.401 --> 00:22:03.461
Yeah.

00:22:04.750 --> 00:22:08.800
And that is so important to try to flip that perspective.

00:22:08.800 --> 00:22:21.671
And for many of us that comes from, we were trained in early life to be very self abandoning, to show our worthiness and to earn our right to exist in our family system, for example.

00:22:21.671 --> 00:22:21.760
Right.

00:22:22.346 --> 00:22:28.736
Or in our work system, depending upon what someone's uh, circumstances were, but that's not a relationship, right.

00:22:30.296 --> 00:22:34.435
You're a tool, if that's your role in a, in a relationship.

00:22:34.435 --> 00:22:35.965
I'm using air quotes for listeners.

00:22:35.965 --> 00:22:37.016
Sure, sure.

00:22:37.135 --> 00:22:39.536
You're just a tool that's not an actual relationship.

00:22:39.536 --> 00:22:51.145
And so when you model that for your children, that the closest people to you are tools for you, and they are expected to give up everything that can go one of two ways.

00:22:51.266 --> 00:22:51.506
Mm-hmm.

00:22:51.746 --> 00:22:53.486
They can become like you.

00:22:54.520 --> 00:23:01.300
Yeah, and they can be people pleasers and overs shares over extenders and give up everything they have, which we don't want for our kids or.

00:23:02.846 --> 00:23:06.445
They can learn to expect that this is how people treat me.

00:23:06.445 --> 00:23:09.415
They give me everything and they expect nothing in return.

00:23:09.415 --> 00:23:16.256
And I have no responsibilities in our relationship and neither one of those are what we want for our children.

00:23:16.945 --> 00:23:17.756
Absolutely.

00:23:17.756 --> 00:23:21.685
And what you're saying, I think this is a golden nugget.

00:23:21.746 --> 00:23:25.855
How are you modeling because.

00:23:26.516 --> 00:23:29.846
You are being watched whether you believe it or not.

00:23:30.415 --> 00:23:33.145
And so what is it that you want to model?

00:23:33.145 --> 00:23:45.596
Do you want to model, give to exhaustion, or do you want to model, give back to myself so that I am as equal as everyone else in my sphere of influence?

00:23:45.596 --> 00:23:45.655
Yeah.

00:23:48.161 --> 00:23:50.830
Tell me, tell me, we've gotta dive into your book.

00:23:50.830 --> 00:23:53.201
I'm sitting here, we're looking at the beautiful colors.

00:23:53.201 --> 00:23:58.181
I'm this, I know it ties into the, some of the conversations we've been having.

00:23:58.330 --> 00:23:59.411
Tell us about your, yeah.

00:23:59.705 --> 00:24:00.125
Mm-hmm.

00:24:00.790 --> 00:24:02.290
I'm holding it up for listeners.

00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:06.010
If you aren't seeing the, the visual of the audio visual aspect.

00:24:06.310 --> 00:24:09.641
So I am so proud of this book.

00:24:09.641 --> 00:24:21.790
It's really a passion project for our family, and what it does is it goes through the day of a little boy who has something that's called pathological demand avoidance.

00:24:21.790 --> 00:24:28.540
So you know, when we look at things like PDA or pathological demand avoidance, so that's a behavioral profile.

00:24:28.661 --> 00:24:30.490
It's not a diagnosis.

00:24:30.580 --> 00:24:30.671
Mm-hmm.

00:24:30.911 --> 00:24:34.480
It is not unusually seen in children who have autism.

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:35.621
So children who have.

00:24:35.776 --> 00:24:41.145
A formal diagnosis, but it doesn't have to be seen in children with autism and we see it.

00:24:41.385 --> 00:24:42.675
People who are on social media.

00:24:42.675 --> 00:24:59.355
You're probably seeing a lot about PDA because it's coming a lot on your for you page, talking about even adults that have this, this pushback that's outsized when they feel a demand or an expectation on them, and.

00:24:59.540 --> 00:25:03.230
This can manifest as something that's relatively small.

00:25:03.230 --> 00:25:06.711
So for example, looking at children like refusing to eat dinner, right?

00:25:07.040 --> 00:25:08.631
Or to sit at the table.

00:25:08.631 --> 00:25:16.040
I can tell you my son only now will actually sit and not all the time at the table.

00:25:16.101 --> 00:25:16.191
Mm-hmm.

00:25:16.431 --> 00:25:23.840
But for years he needed to stand on his chair because that expectation to sit was.

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.431
Was really stressful.

00:25:27.431 --> 00:25:27.490
Yeah.

00:25:28.300 --> 00:25:45.701
And we as parents or caregivers, you can force that child to sit, but that's not really connecting and that's not really understanding the why behind why is this so important and we don't understand it.

00:25:45.730 --> 00:25:45.971
Right.

00:25:45.971 --> 00:25:50.921
It doesn't necessarily make sense to me if I don't have this behavioral profile.

00:25:50.951 --> 00:25:51.070
Right.

00:25:52.675 --> 00:25:59.786
But if we take a step back and connect with this child and try to understand how they feel in this moment.

00:26:00.671 --> 00:26:14.621
If that allows them to get through dinner, because otherwise having to sit at a certain time with a certain type of food, with certain people that maybe they'd rather not sit with, maybe they're mad at sister or whatever it is, you know?

00:26:14.621 --> 00:26:14.861
Right.

00:26:14.861 --> 00:26:21.941
There's so many demands on them in this mor in this moment, and they're choosing something they have control over.

00:26:21.971 --> 00:26:22.151
Hmm.

00:26:22.855 --> 00:26:36.895
And so what this book is about is trying to normalize or destigmatize the perspective of a child who has this behavioral profile, right?

00:26:37.645 --> 00:26:42.865
This little boy, as the title says, it's called The Boy in His Brightly Colored Blocks.

00:26:43.105 --> 00:26:50.185
Now, this little boy loves his brightly colored blocks and he dislikes anything that takes him away from them, right?

00:26:51.056 --> 00:26:51.925
And so.

00:26:52.286 --> 00:27:02.185
As we know in an average day, especially once we get to preschool age, if we have other people in the home, if we have other siblings, we have dogs.

00:27:02.425 --> 00:27:09.655
Like we have to just for ourselves, we have to eat, we have to bathe, we have to put clothes on at least before we leave the house.

00:27:11.455 --> 00:27:17.546
You know, at least a certain number of clothing that can be, like, that can be stretched a little bit, but you know, we've gotta wear certain things, right?

00:27:17.546 --> 00:27:17.605
Yeah.

00:27:17.605 --> 00:27:18.715
Um, gotta wear shoes.

00:27:18.986 --> 00:27:21.955
Um, we've got to eat and then.

00:27:22.105 --> 00:27:24.145
Oh, maybe we have to get sister from school.

00:27:24.205 --> 00:27:25.855
Maybe we have to take the dogs out.

00:27:25.915 --> 00:27:31.046
And what can happen is a lot of children who have PDA, they also may have autism.

00:27:31.046 --> 00:27:32.965
They also may have a lot of special interests.

00:27:32.996 --> 00:27:41.875
And so there can be one thing that they really hyperfocused on and that can either be a really frustrating thing for a family.

00:27:41.996 --> 00:27:44.155
You know, you can say, oh, you're this age.

00:27:44.155 --> 00:27:46.645
I really wish when I was that age, I really liked.

00:27:47.050 --> 00:27:47.260
Right.

00:27:47.260 --> 00:27:48.101
Playing outside.

00:27:48.250 --> 00:28:06.611
I like playing with sticks and running around or playing this fantasy game and all you want to do is play with your blocks or you can try to understand what this connection means for the child and you can try to use it to help them navigate the other challenges in their day.

00:28:06.941 --> 00:28:09.221
They have control over this toy.

00:28:09.310 --> 00:28:09.371
Yeah.

00:28:09.971 --> 00:28:12.131
They have control over what they do with this toy.

00:28:12.550 --> 00:28:12.641
Mm-hmm.

00:28:12.881 --> 00:28:19.451
And then when we have inevitable moments throughout the day where they don't have control, how can we use.

00:28:20.441 --> 00:28:25.451
And model how important it is for them to have this thing that they do have control over.

00:28:25.691 --> 00:28:25.780
Mm-hmm.

00:28:26.020 --> 00:28:32.740
How can we use that to model how we empower them throughout their day to have less dysregulation?

00:28:32.740 --> 00:28:39.431
Because when they feel a demand, they go into often a state of fight or flight.

00:28:40.181 --> 00:28:40.391
Right?

00:28:40.421 --> 00:28:40.810
Right.

00:28:41.171 --> 00:28:44.171
It doesn't always look like they just refuse to eat right.

00:28:44.441 --> 00:28:46.211
Or they refuse to sit in their chair.

00:28:46.451 --> 00:28:48.401
It can manifest as a tantrum.

00:28:48.671 --> 00:28:52.480
Breaking a toy or even physical violence, right?

00:28:52.510 --> 00:28:52.750
Yeah.

00:28:52.810 --> 00:28:53.201
Right.

00:28:53.201 --> 00:28:53.320
Yeah.

00:28:53.381 --> 00:29:10.151
And we see this in kids, so we can call that bad behavior and go down that rabbit hole that I think at this point in time, thankfully, most of us, you know, in education and parenting, we figured out that doesn't really work.

00:29:10.151 --> 00:29:10.661
Yeah.

00:29:11.756 --> 00:29:19.105
Instead of doing that, we can try to connect with them rather than correct and figure out what's behind the behavior.

00:29:19.135 --> 00:29:19.316
Yes.

00:29:20.246 --> 00:29:22.526
And find out ways, how can I empower my child?

00:29:22.526 --> 00:29:24.385
And so one of the things in the book is.

00:29:25.165 --> 00:29:27.566
There's an itchy clothes moment, right?

00:29:27.566 --> 00:29:28.016
Yes.

00:29:28.226 --> 00:29:28.586
Mm-hmm.

00:29:28.976 --> 00:29:30.836
A lot of kids have this sensitivity.

00:29:31.226 --> 00:29:34.165
Well, mom's figured that out, right?

00:29:34.165 --> 00:29:34.226
Yeah.

00:29:34.316 --> 00:29:37.016
So she puts something on, oops, I messed up.

00:29:37.016 --> 00:29:37.645
It's itchy.

00:29:38.726 --> 00:29:38.846
Yeah.

00:29:38.846 --> 00:29:41.726
And instead of saying, no, you're wearing that'cause that's what we've got.

00:29:41.726 --> 00:29:43.496
She says this or this.

00:29:43.945 --> 00:29:44.246
Yeah.

00:29:44.306 --> 00:29:44.875
Right?

00:29:45.236 --> 00:29:45.296
Yeah.

00:29:45.296 --> 00:29:47.365
Or we need to take a bath.

00:29:48.461 --> 00:29:51.730
And you have to leave your toys, but actually you don't have to leave your toys.

00:29:51.730 --> 00:29:53.381
Do you wanna bring your toys with you?

00:29:53.411 --> 00:29:54.881
Do you wanna bring your blocks with you?

00:29:54.881 --> 00:29:54.971
Mm-hmm.

00:29:55.540 --> 00:29:59.530
And then the boy thinks about it and he's like, oh, no.

00:30:00.340 --> 00:30:03.881
Bubbles sinking the drain.

00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:09.490
Oh no, mom, I, I do not wanna take my toys with me'cause it, I might lose them.

00:30:10.330 --> 00:30:18.941
But as simple as that sounds, mom has made it his decision and empowered him to make a reasonable decision.

00:30:18.971 --> 00:30:21.701
'cause kids can make really reasonable decisions.

00:30:22.121 --> 00:30:29.260
Given the opportunity and if we help them stay as much as we can, not gonna happen all the time.

00:30:29.260 --> 00:30:29.530
Mm-hmm of course.

00:30:29.681 --> 00:30:33.580
But try to help them stay in a place of regulation.

00:30:33.580 --> 00:30:48.461
'cause if we push the issue and try to counter control with further control, we are just gonna get into that fight or flight stage where we're not learning, we're not connecting, they're not gonna do the thing we want them to do.

00:30:49.135 --> 00:30:52.826
And we're not gonna feel good about what transpired between us.

00:30:52.976 --> 00:30:55.256
I was gonna say it's a no win situation.

00:30:55.496 --> 00:30:56.215
Totally no win.

00:30:56.215 --> 00:30:56.455
Yeah.

00:30:56.786 --> 00:30:57.506
Nobody, yeah.

00:30:58.540 --> 00:31:04.165
I, I absolutely love what you are saying in two things that came up for me.

00:31:04.165 --> 00:31:04.855
Correction.

00:31:05.326 --> 00:31:06.526
Versus connection.

00:31:06.675 --> 00:31:09.316
Let's flip it and make sure we've got that connection piece.

00:31:09.346 --> 00:31:21.195
And one of the things that I remember so vividly was my role as that behavior resource teacher and principal, um, was the why behind I.

00:31:21.715 --> 00:31:27.056
Behavior because there is a reason for everything that people do.

00:31:27.056 --> 00:31:39.895
It's just trying to uncover where that's actually coming from, that source so that you can, like your book sounds amazing and I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of it.

00:31:40.375 --> 00:31:45.715
We've got three grand, four grandchildren now, so I might be ordering quite a few.

00:31:46.590 --> 00:31:48.121
Oh, thank you.

00:31:48.451 --> 00:31:50.851
I would love to hear what they think about it.

00:31:51.030 --> 00:31:59.971
One thing I will say that my experience reading it with children, with the advanced copies I have, you know, I take one in in my bag with me and I'll pull it out and just kind of, sure.

00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:05.671
Oh mom, dad, do you mind if I read this with your kids and kind of see what they think and.

00:32:05.935 --> 00:32:10.316
The experience that I have with children is they just love the boy.

00:32:10.316 --> 00:32:15.865
They think he's so funny and they see themselves in the boy.

00:32:15.865 --> 00:32:18.865
And these are children who may not have autism.

00:32:18.895 --> 00:32:31.076
Yeah, they may not have PDA, but this allows them to see this boy who is having these really big emotions and it's illustrated in such a beautiful, colorful way.

00:32:31.605 --> 00:32:35.715
Mom is calm, mom is creating a space of acceptance.

00:32:36.016 --> 00:32:36.076
Yeah.

00:32:36.105 --> 00:32:42.046
And so these children are seeing, oh, okay, that's not a bad kid.

00:32:42.105 --> 00:32:42.346
No.

00:32:42.496 --> 00:32:42.736
Yeah.

00:32:43.066 --> 00:32:44.925
That's a kid who's having a feeling.

00:32:45.226 --> 00:32:45.375
Yeah.

00:32:45.375 --> 00:32:45.736
Right.

00:32:46.185 --> 00:32:46.336
Yeah.

00:32:46.336 --> 00:32:47.326
And he is moving through it.

00:32:47.326 --> 00:32:52.276
And, and so it's, it's really fun not only to read for kids who see themselves.

00:32:53.006 --> 00:32:55.016
Like a replica in the boy.

00:32:55.046 --> 00:32:55.135
Right.

00:32:55.135 --> 00:32:57.205
'cause they think it's hilarious and they love it.

00:32:57.205 --> 00:32:57.536
Sure.

00:32:58.316 --> 00:33:02.276
But children who can have empathy.

00:33:02.576 --> 00:33:02.816
Yeah.

00:33:02.846 --> 00:33:10.016
For their friends who are having this behavior, instead of coming home and saying, you know, oh, Timmy was being bad today at school.

00:33:10.016 --> 00:33:14.965
They may come home and say, Timmy was having a big emotion today and Exactly.

00:33:14.965 --> 00:33:16.316
We were able to help them.

00:33:17.050 --> 00:33:17.770
I love that.

00:33:17.770 --> 00:33:23.441
And you know, the thing that I'm seeing a connection to is we as adults have big emotions too.

00:33:23.441 --> 00:33:24.580
Thank you very much.

00:33:24.971 --> 00:33:27.580
Yes, yes.

00:33:27.641 --> 00:33:36.820
And, and so we can absolutely take a look at that and go, okay, so do I need where, what's going on?

00:33:36.820 --> 00:33:37.871
Where did that come from?

00:33:37.871 --> 00:33:43.540
Because sometimes those big emotions, you don't even recognize what's going on if you haven't done.

00:33:44.006 --> 00:33:46.316
That infamous work we've been talking about.

00:33:46.316 --> 00:33:49.405
So thank you so much for this conversation.

00:33:49.945 --> 00:33:50.875
So good.

00:33:51.655 --> 00:33:52.496
Thank you so much.

00:33:52.496 --> 00:33:53.665
I really appreciate it.

00:33:54.056 --> 00:34:01.405
And I think that's one of the things that I hope that the mother will also give a big hug, a, a virtual hug to yes.

00:34:01.796 --> 00:34:04.796
Families that are reading it to say, Hey, you're doing a great job.

00:34:04.976 --> 00:34:06.715
You know, mom makes mistakes in here too.

00:34:07.346 --> 00:34:11.126
She does things that make him angry that she quote unquote should, if we're gonna use that.

00:34:11.175 --> 00:34:12.045
Horrible word.

00:34:12.346 --> 00:34:12.376
Aw.

00:34:12.376 --> 00:34:13.755
Should have known better, right?

00:34:13.755 --> 00:34:15.226
She makes mistakes too.

00:34:15.556 --> 00:34:16.485
But she respond.

00:34:16.695 --> 00:34:18.706
She responds calmly.

00:34:18.706 --> 00:34:31.755
And I think it's so important that when we are around people who are dysregulated, that we learn as we have, you know, to circle back to the top of our conversation, to stay really centered and who we are, stay in control of our own nervous system.

00:34:31.815 --> 00:34:35.655
And if we're feeling that we wanna counter control.

00:34:37.106 --> 00:34:39.416
I look that at that as a really challenging C.

00:34:39.416 --> 00:34:42.445
That's not the CI wanna be in the counter control.

00:34:42.715 --> 00:34:42.956
Yeah.

00:34:43.016 --> 00:34:45.655
I want to say instead of, Ooh, I feel that control.

00:34:45.655 --> 00:34:46.916
I feel those emotions.

00:34:46.916 --> 00:34:52.226
I feel even my blood pressure going up, my heart rate going up, I'm maybe my respiratory rate's going up.

00:34:52.226 --> 00:34:54.371
I feel my body is trying to meet you and kind.

00:34:55.391 --> 00:34:55.811
Mm-hmm.

00:34:56.965 --> 00:35:01.885
In this moment, I wanna stay centered in who I am and recognize those emotions are yours.

00:35:01.885 --> 00:35:04.556
So that's the moment where I lean out.

00:35:04.615 --> 00:35:05.576
Yes.

00:35:05.965 --> 00:35:08.246
And say, I see you.

00:35:08.306 --> 00:35:09.865
I see how you feel.

00:35:10.135 --> 00:35:20.905
And I leave myself out of it because if I lean in and bring myself into it and we just start mirroring each other, it's that it's that vicious cycle and it's not going to get us to connection.

00:35:21.326 --> 00:35:22.286
Absolutely.

00:35:22.286 --> 00:35:23.335
And do you.

00:35:24.266 --> 00:35:30.356
My experience because I used to do a lot of training in crisis prevention intervention as a trainer.

00:35:30.416 --> 00:35:44.936
And so what you're talking about is bringing me right back to no matter what's happening, we can help mirror others to come down to a calm level and then look at what we need to look at after.

00:35:44.936 --> 00:35:47.876
But right now, let's just keep everybody safe and.

00:35:48.806 --> 00:36:02.396
That you have a lot of opportunity to help change the direction in the course to help another self-regulate when I love what you're saying, you lean back instead of in.

00:36:02.965 --> 00:36:04.465
So thank you for that.

00:36:05.815 --> 00:36:07.076
Oh, it's my pleasure.

00:36:07.106 --> 00:36:14.846
And, and even with something starting with simple things, like even changing the tone of your voice, the volume of your voice, or.

00:36:15.356 --> 00:36:17.365
The rate of your speech.

00:36:17.365 --> 00:36:27.775
You know, there are little ways that you can try to maintain who you are and how you feel in those moments, and so we can find little things that work for us to try to stay centered.

00:36:28.315 --> 00:36:28.916
Love it.

00:36:28.976 --> 00:36:29.576
Love it.

00:36:30.505 --> 00:36:32.425
Thank you so much.

00:36:32.485 --> 00:36:33.206
I knew there was this.

00:36:33.240 --> 00:36:45.811
Gonna be an amazing conversation and it has been that and more we have in our show notes how people can get connected to you, how to get the book, all of the good things.

00:36:46.291 --> 00:36:49.981
Are there any words of wisdom which you haven't already shared?

00:36:49.981 --> 00:36:51.300
'cause I know you've got so much.

00:36:51.661 --> 00:36:56.340
Anything you want to share with our audience before we say goodbye?

00:36:57.481 --> 00:37:01.920
I know we've, we've used a lot of tools and, and some nice quotes today.

00:37:02.786 --> 00:37:08.965
For me, especially in midlife, we've done a lot of growing in our lives, right.

00:37:09.146 --> 00:37:15.085
And we've developed in a certain way, but as we said earlier, you know, sometimes we have to take a step back and say, is this.

00:37:16.255 --> 00:37:24.536
Is this who I really am and can I continue to grow where I am with the current environment I have?

00:37:24.775 --> 00:37:28.106
Or am I going to get stunted, almost like a plant in a box?

00:37:28.135 --> 00:37:39.295
And so one thing I always try to encourage listeners and clients to do is if you can't grow where you are, go where you can grow.

00:37:39.295 --> 00:37:44.576
So I hope everyone who's listening now, especially as we are in spring, and we are literally.

00:37:44.786 --> 00:37:48.775
Seeing the world blossom around us.

00:37:49.045 --> 00:37:51.385
Take a look at yourself and your life.

00:37:51.835 --> 00:37:52.945
Are you blossoming?

00:37:53.335 --> 00:37:58.585
And if you're not and you can't grow where you are, where can you grow?

00:37:58.856 --> 00:37:59.876
Where can you go?

00:38:00.085 --> 00:38:01.496
So that is possible.

00:38:02.260 --> 00:38:03.851
Thank you so much.

00:38:03.911 --> 00:38:07.420
Where can you go to grow for you?

00:38:07.510 --> 00:38:12.521
By you because of you, it is time to thrive after 45.

00:38:13.030 --> 00:38:15.161
So thank you again, Dr.

00:38:15.161 --> 00:38:18.340
Schafer, for spending this time with us today.

00:38:18.791 --> 00:38:20.471
I wish you all the best.

00:38:20.561 --> 00:38:25.061
And to our listeners, make sure you press that follow and like button.

00:38:25.451 --> 00:38:30.851
Please give reviews if resonates with you, and we will see you on the next show.

00:38:31.045 --> 00:38:31.766
Goodbye everyone.