Sept. 18, 2025
From Public Speaking Anxiety to Speaking Mentor - with Dr. Doreen Downing
Some of us are here to teach the very thing we once feared the most. That's the powerful truth at the heart of this week's Thrive After 45™ episode. I sat down with Dr. Doreen Downing, a clinical psychologist who spent decades helping people, all while secretly struggling with intense public speaking anxiety. It wasn't just nerves...it was a crippling fear that she couldn't "knuckle her way through" or overcome by memorizing scripts. Instead of letting her fear win, Doreen chose to d...
Some of us are here to teach the very thing we once feared the most. That's the powerful truth at the heart of this week's Thrive After 45™ episode.
I sat down with Dr. Doreen Downing, a clinical psychologist who spent decades helping people, all while secretly struggling with intense public speaking anxiety.
It wasn't just nerves...it was a crippling fear that she couldn't "knuckle her way through" or overcome by memorizing scripts.
Instead of letting her fear win, Doreen chose to do the deep inner work. What she discovered became her life's signature contribution...the Find Your Voice method.
It's a powerful mix of psychology, mindfulness, and her own experience, created to help people stop performing and start expressing their truth in boardrooms, on stages, or at home.
She’s mentored thousands of people over 45 years and was first licensed as a psychotherapist in 1980.
We chat about how to move from pretending to performing and get to your quiet inner truth.
Doreen's work is not about helping people be better speakers, but about helping them be more of who they are.
She shares that what's in your way is actually the way.
She also opens up about what most people get wrong about fear...that it's too big to approach...and how we can start listening to what our fear is trying to teach us.
Doreen's book, "The 7 Secrets to Finding Your Voice," teaches a process of how to be still, be present, and eventually, be yourself. It’s a journey that takes you from the past, where your fears were born, to a courageous confidence in the present moment.
Find out more about Doreen and her work:
- Website: https://doreendowning.com
- Get Her 7 Step Guide to Fearless Speaking: https://doreen7steps.com
Thank you for spending time with me today on the Thrive After 45™ podcast! If this episode spoke to you, be sure to hit that follow button so you never miss one.
And if you loved it, I’d be so grateful if you left a review - it helps more amazing women like you find this show!
Your journey doesn’t stop here - let’s keep the conversation going! Connect with me at denisedrinkwalter.com, and follow @thethriveafter45podcast for daily insp, tips, and support.
Remember, midlife isn’t the end - it’s just the beginning of a new, exciting chapter! Keep thriving, keep shining, and I’ll see you next time!
WEBVTT
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What if the very thing that you're here to teach.
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Is the thing you once feared the most.
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Welcome to Thrive after 45.
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The podcast where you remember the woman you were never meant to forget.
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I'm Denise.
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Drink Walter heart whisperer, midlife mirror, and mentor for the woman awakening to her power.
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This is your space to shed expectations, collapse timelines, and return to yourself for you by you because of you.
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It is an absolute honor and a privilege to welcome and reintroduce Dr.
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Doreen Downing to our show today.
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Doreen is not just a clinical psychologist with a doctorate from a very prestigious university.
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She's a woman who's cracked open.
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One of the most personal challenges.
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Any of us can face the fear of using our voice.
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Despite decades of expertise in human behavior, Doreen secretly struggled with intense public speaking anxiety, not nerves, but crippling avoidance.
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Instead of hiding behind the title, she chose to do the deep inner work.
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And what emerged is her life's signature contribution.
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The Find your Voice method, a powerful blend of psychology.
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Mindfulness and lived experience created to help others break free from silence.
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Finally, speaking their truth, whether in boardrooms, on stages, or in their own homes.
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She's mentored thousands over the past 45 years.
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She was a licensed, she was licensed as a psychotherapist in California in 1980 and today.
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She's a fearless speaking mentor who helps people stop performing and start expressing.
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Welcome, welcome, welcome to our show today.
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Oh, Denise, that was fabulous.
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I know I gave you a few, uh, lines too about myself, but what you just did to integrate and make it, uh, very, it was just beautiful.
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I just wanna say thank you for whatever you added to it to make it feel like, yeah, that's my truth.
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It is absolutely my truth and I feel kind of teary just having it reflected back to me.
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Wow.
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It, it did life.
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Well, it's.
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It's been an amazing journey and I can't even begin to understand the depths of which you've had to reach to get to what you are doing now.
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I mentioned in the opening sentence, what if your biggest fear became your life's purpose and you moved?
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People and mountains through everything you've grown and learned.
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And that's exactly what you do.
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Yes.
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And it's, it's amazing.
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Yeah.
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It shows all of us what is truly possible instead of letting the fear take us over.
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I know, or even try and, um, battle the fear and do it anyway.
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I know that that's a, it's a, it's a strategy for some, but for, uh, more sensitive types, like myself, I, Ooh, I, I couldn't do it.
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I couldn't just.
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Pretend or knuckle my way through, or memorize, memorize, memorize.
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I have to tell you, when I was in Toastmasters, I would memorize a five minute speech.
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Right.
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And I would do it maybe 50 times.
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Nevertheless, when I got up in front of folks, I'd forget.
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Yeah.
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And I know that, uh, that's.
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That's part of the problem is not being able to stand in the very present moment with whatever, whoever's in front of you and be able to say, ah, take my breath, come back and feel the words coming from within me as opposed to my script.
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Yeah.
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Powerful.
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There's nothing like it.
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It's, it's like you're, you're tapping in like you've said before, to your truth.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And that's a practice.
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I mean, it's a learning journey and that's what's so exciting, having been a psychologist for 45 years here, that it really is a journey to what, who you are deeply inside.
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Not all the layers that you've developed, like pleasing or pretending or, you know, all the kind of P words.
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Yeah, the, the performance.
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Yes.
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Not about and, but in, in, it's kind of difficult, I have to say, to be a stand for coming back to a quiet inner truth that you know, and learning how to access that.
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That's one layer.
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And then how to express it and then how to deal with.
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Whatever happens after you express it.
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And is there, have you found, or even with the people that you've worked with, thank heavens you're doing this work.
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I'm so grateful that you are doing this work.
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Um, have you found any of those layers in particular more challenging or is it a whole package or is it dependent on the person?
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Well, I'd say they're patterns.
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Okay.
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'cause you, you know that there are all sorts of assessments, personality styles, Myers Briggs, are you introvert or an extrovert.
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And so I think that first.
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I, I don't wanna use a particular assessment.
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Sure.
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First, I just wanna help people understand their patterns.
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Mm.
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And it does seem to kind of fall into some categories, some of which I just started to talk about.
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Uh, how do you.
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Avoid speaking up and expressing your truth.
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I love what you said about from the boardroom.
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Well, it's actually from the boardroom to the bedroom.
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There you go.
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Is your most Yeah.
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Your voice is your most, uh, valuable asset.
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And so first of all, where are the places where you feel like your silenced?
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I'm gonna put my hand over my mouth.
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You know where you hold back or where you get scared.
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Those are the, that's the first step in this in self discovery.
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Mm-hmm.
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I'm, what I do is, my work is more about people who wanna be more of who they are, not just that are speakers.
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Say that again.
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'cause that was brilliant.
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That was perfect.
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That was perfect.
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Yeah.
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Well, that's, that's, uh, my work is not about helping people be better speakers and making better speeches and being better performers.
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Oh, I want people to be truly lined up with who they are, who they're meant to be, their, and I think that it's a, it's a deeper place inside of us that we have to go to access, but you also have to learn how to make that inner journey.
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And that's why I love the guiding to me, Denise, to me, I love travel.
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Mm-hmm.
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I love to go to a new, any place, but a country or a city or even just out in nature and open myself up to explore.
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And that's the what I bring, I think, to people who wanna go within, because most people don't know how to do inner work.
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You know, they need a guide.
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And so I feel like I, that's what my whole life is now.
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Whole life.
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My training, like you said, my lived experience, I thought that was a way to to say it has been about how to go within face fear, learn how to embrace it, and then replace it.
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And those three are part of a training I do.
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Um, base embrace, replace fear.
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Mm.
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Love that.
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It's, it's a lot easier than what people, you know, because they get afraid to face their fear.
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Well, I know some ways you can, and it's gonna be maybe even a little fun.
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Thank you for saying that because I.
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Beat on this drama lot, and so I'm so glad that you shared.
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We make this fear into the biggest, darkest blackest cloud that we could ever hold, and it's safer just to avoid it instead of going into it.
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But what I heard you say is it's, it can be even fun because we explore in ways we wouldn't normally do.
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Oh, yes.
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And what, to me, with this, uh, inner journey of facing fear and learning how to, there's a, a quote, what's in your way is the way.
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What's in your way is the way, and that is, I think one of the guideposts is say, okay, if it's in your way, let's just, I love the idea of, I'm a big sister anyway, so I love the idea of taking somebody's hand and just saying, oh, look at that.
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And then learning how that, yes, it was perhaps a survival mechanism, uh, that they.
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You know that they figured out, luckily early in life to protect themselves, but sure.
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Let's, let's appreciate the fact that the fear did that for you.
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Yes, right.
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Thank that fear.
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Yes, thank you.
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Good guy.
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There you go.
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There you go.
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So.
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What do most people get wrong about fear and, and how do we actually start listening to what our fear is actually trying to teach us?
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Hmm.
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Great questions, both of them.
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The first, I'll go for the last one and I'll, I Sure, sure.
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I'm not sure I'll remember the first question.
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It's okay.
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Last that's, I could repeat the listening.
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Because I think that's the, that is the absolute key to inner work is being able to, I'll just do it right now.
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Just take a breath, calm the whole nervous system down, and to have a place of a quiet observer.
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That's through regulating your body so that you are, your heart isn't beating fast, and you're able to feel grounded in your belly and your feet.
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You know that there's a grounded sense of being in this very, now, maybe even close the eyes.
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I mean, it's, it's kind of hypnotic, but uh, it is a way of.
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Preparing yourself to face something that you know has been an impediment that's been difficult for you.
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So you train yourself to be a quiet observer, nonjudgmental, and not really trying to.
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Change the fear, but to learn about it.
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To explore it.
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So that's the kind of listening that I think is, uh, one that gets, gets the truth, gets closer to the truth.
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Right?
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An animal that's been, uh, wounded.
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'cause that's what we're talking about, our wounded voice, uh, that you've gotta approach very gently.
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Mm-hmm.
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Slowly, and that seems to be the same truth about how to approach fear.
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Yeah.
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I love that.
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What I'm hearing you say is that you sit with it.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I love how you said, don't be judgmental, just be at one with it and try to pull that lens of curiosity.
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Ooh, that's a nice way to say it.
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Lens of curiosity.
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Yes.
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Ah, what can I learn here?
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What, uh, you know, so it, it, it's just a whole different approach.
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So I think your first question is what do people get wrong about fear?
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Right.
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I remembered.
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Okay.
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So what I think they get wrong about fear is that they can't do anything about it.
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And that it's, uh, it's something, it is what you said a few minutes ago.
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It's this huge big obstacle that, uh, is.
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It's just too, it, it creates too much terror in their body that they, and there is some truth about trauma, right?
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And we don't wanna activate or reactivate trauma.
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So that's why this new kind of deep, uh, listening with, with what you say cur curious lens.
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Curious lens, yeah.
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Lens of curiosity.
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Yeah.
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Curiosity.
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So that's, uh, so I think that they get what gets what people get wrong about fear is that it's too big, they can't approach it.
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And uh, other people can feel the fear and do it anyway, but they can't, so they don't, they don't really, they haven't learned that there is, there is an approach.
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Right, right.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That works.
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Exactly.
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And it doesn't have to be Toastmasters.
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Because that scary for so many of the people that I work with who have tried it and they feel like they go and it's not, it's not a safe place for them.
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For some it is.
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I'm not saying it's Sure.
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Sure.
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Yeah, and I mean, what you have talked about I think is really the next level.
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I mean, I'm not totally familiar with Toastmasters.
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I have a cursory view of what it is, but it's more just about how you present.
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It's a presentation part, and you are talking.
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Aligning yourself with whom you really are and taking yourself and sharing that in a way that exudes not only confidence, but comfort from within.
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You capture so much of the work that I do and such great words, uh, you're, you're just, uh, you're like a, a poet who, uh, is able to reflect the truth.
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Yes.
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That is what the way you just expressed it is it's about learning more about what's really true for yourself and finding, I would call it courageous confidence.
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To speak up.
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Love that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I love that.
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I love that.
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And you mentioned the three different levels.
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I can't remember the second one.
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The in inside, looking at your inside, and then the third part was about what comes back to you as you share.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Your truth.
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Yeah.
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And.
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That in itself, I'm sure is an incredible journey for the people that you work with and how they get to learn, grow, and change by getting the feedback of what people hear or what they think they hear, right?
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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So the, uh.
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A lot of times people are afraid to speak up and, and say what they really feel or what they really want because they're going to create something in the other person that they will then have to deal with.
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So that's what they're really avoiding.
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They're avoiding the consequence of expressing their truth.
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Yeah.
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And so, um.
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There are ways to express truth, especially let's say anger.
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Sure.
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In a way that's much more relational or compassionate or, you know, being able to really own your own truth rather than just a blasting at somebody.
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So I think those are some communication techniques that I think can help people when they're actually.
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More'cause there's the inner work and then of course there's the outer work of how to express it.
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And then, uh, if it goes wrong, how to say, oh, I actually meant to say this, this and that.
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Yeah.
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You know, like, yeah.
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Yeah.
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And or except that people have reactions and it's none of your business how they react to you.
00:17:19.096 --> 00:17:19.726
Right.
00:17:19.786 --> 00:17:20.596
Exactly.
00:17:20.596 --> 00:17:23.746
That's, that's theirs to own what they come back with.
00:17:24.540 --> 00:17:25.471
That's about you.
00:17:25.471 --> 00:17:26.671
That's not about me.
00:17:26.671 --> 00:17:40.560
And if there's learning for me to understand that I didn't send my message across the way it was in my body, my mind, my heart, my soul, I'll rework it so you, I know that you really understand what it is I was actually trying to share.
00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:41.191
Right?
00:17:41.580 --> 00:17:42.060
Yeah.
00:17:42.060 --> 00:17:42.070
Beautiful.
00:17:42.165 --> 00:17:42.385
Yes.
00:17:42.391 --> 00:17:42.510
Yeah.
00:17:42.540 --> 00:17:43.260
Yeah.
00:17:45.090 --> 00:17:51.931
What is the secret to being confident to express yourself without that fear standing in the way?
00:17:54.556 --> 00:17:54.675
Hmm.
00:17:56.266 --> 00:17:58.066
Ooh, the secret.
00:17:58.066 --> 00:18:00.046
Well, my book has seven secrets.
00:18:02.625 --> 00:18:03.556
Well, there we go.
00:18:03.556 --> 00:18:05.715
We're gonna get your book to get all seven.
00:18:05.715 --> 00:18:09.976
Is there one in particular that's really, I'm glad you said that.
00:18:10.006 --> 00:18:10.425
Yes.
00:18:10.455 --> 00:18:13.546
'cause I, I probably don't wanna go through all seven, but that's, yes.
00:18:14.046 --> 00:18:24.020
The, the process, the find your voice process that I, uh, develop based on my own expertise as a psychologist and my own lived experience, as you said.
00:18:24.020 --> 00:18:24.111
Yes.
00:18:24.141 --> 00:18:35.330
So, uh, the, see, the one that, oh, there's so many because there's aspects of it, but I would say, uh, all of them, just as a way of explaining what it is.
00:18:35.361 --> 00:18:41.000
Every single one of my seven secrets begins with Be b, e, be.
00:18:42.961 --> 00:18:52.500
I'll just say the first one is be still, the second one is be present and then on and on and on till the, the seventh secret is be yourself.
00:18:52.830 --> 00:18:55.320
So we don't start with being yourself.
00:18:55.681 --> 00:18:57.361
You have, that's the journey.
00:18:57.840 --> 00:19:03.181
So the stillness is the first learning how to still the.
00:19:03.796 --> 00:19:24.885
Mind the chatter, learning how to calm your beating heart, how to, uh, so that's the first is being still learning how to be still in the midst of maybe your heart is beating, but you can still have a centered, grounded, uh, sense of stillness inside.
00:19:25.125 --> 00:19:30.256
And so the second one, and I won't go further, but, and this is to me what.
00:19:31.185 --> 00:19:33.105
What's so powerful about that?
00:19:33.105 --> 00:19:34.786
My process is presence.
00:19:35.101 --> 00:19:35.520
Mm-hmm.
00:19:36.260 --> 00:19:36.681
Mm-hmm.
00:19:36.915 --> 00:19:49.276
Be present because so much of the fears in the past, whether it was family, teachers, other kids, teasing, absolutely.
00:19:49.455 --> 00:19:49.786
Culture.
00:19:50.865 --> 00:19:53.746
Thou shall not, you know, that kind of thing.
00:19:53.746 --> 00:20:00.736
Religion, all the reasons, the way that we've learned to hide ourselves and our voice.
00:20:02.641 --> 00:20:03.871
Is in the past.
00:20:03.871 --> 00:20:03.961
Mm-hmm.
00:20:04.201 --> 00:20:16.320
And then what we do is project it into the future, anticipating, uh oh, I better not, or else, uh, or if something happened in the past, it's gonna happen again.
00:20:16.681 --> 00:20:24.510
So learning how to take that breath, soften the eyes, that's another one of the lessons, but it's just.
00:20:25.711 --> 00:20:33.675
So the sockets around your eyes, cheeks begin to relax, shoulders drop, it's magic.
00:20:33.855 --> 00:20:37.816
You could do that in any meeting, right?
00:20:38.205 --> 00:20:38.655
Yeah.
00:20:39.435 --> 00:20:40.695
You don't have to go anywhere.
00:20:40.726 --> 00:20:45.286
You can just be literally, like you just said, be still be present, and Uhhuh.
00:20:45.316 --> 00:20:47.175
Do all of that inside yourself.
00:20:48.135 --> 00:20:50.326
Everything changes'cause you change your energy.
00:20:50.326 --> 00:20:52.875
We have so much power and control Yes.
00:20:52.905 --> 00:20:54.346
That we don't utilize.
00:20:54.675 --> 00:20:55.276
But when?
00:20:55.576 --> 00:20:57.105
When we don't know.
00:20:57.901 --> 00:21:00.840
We can't do, and that's why Dr.
00:21:00.840 --> 00:21:20.941
Doreen has so many incredible gifts to share with you and in our show notes, we absolutely will have how to connect with her and contact her and see all of the incredible things that she has out in the world right now to help all of us find our voice, right?
00:21:21.601 --> 00:21:21.961
Yeah.
00:21:22.080 --> 00:21:25.951
And be confident to express what matters most.
00:21:26.131 --> 00:21:26.641
Yeah.
00:21:27.286 --> 00:21:40.276
Oh, and that, and you said in the show, uh, right at the beginning of the show that it's, whether it's at home, some of the work that I do in teaching people how to listen, it changes their relationships.
00:21:41.026 --> 00:21:49.665
Yeah, people came back to me and said, I said that that's exactly what he's been wanting from me.
00:21:49.665 --> 00:21:51.016
All this or that.
00:21:51.016 --> 00:22:03.135
My wife is, you know, that kind, they, they report back the power of what they learn about being present and about really using the eyes to stay with.
00:22:03.135 --> 00:22:07.125
And, uh, listen with your eyes.
00:22:07.800 --> 00:22:10.891
I just feel like I could teach so much right now, but, so anyway.
00:22:11.010 --> 00:22:15.330
Listen with your eyes is another, is another teaching, I think.
00:22:15.361 --> 00:22:16.365
As opposed, yeah.
00:22:17.580 --> 00:22:19.381
Where you, or listen from your heart.
00:22:19.381 --> 00:22:20.070
Hello.
00:22:20.131 --> 00:22:22.441
That's a beautiful instruction, isn't it?
00:22:22.441 --> 00:22:22.951
Listen.
00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:23.070
Mm-hmm.
00:22:23.490 --> 00:22:24.060
Listening.
00:22:24.121 --> 00:22:24.631
Yes.
00:22:24.871 --> 00:22:25.201
Yeah.
00:22:25.830 --> 00:22:25.980
Yeah.
00:22:28.020 --> 00:22:35.790
Before we close, is there anything that you would absolutely love to leave our audience with today?
00:22:36.211 --> 00:22:37.590
Any closing remarks?
00:22:37.590 --> 00:22:43.441
Any closing comments that are coming up for you that you wanna make sure land on?
00:22:43.891 --> 00:22:46.800
Two ears for each audience member.
00:22:48.840 --> 00:23:10.770
Well, I would say the second step about facing and embracing the way that we are with ourselves in terms of, um, being kind and gentle and patient and being our own, I guess you might say something like medicine that we bring to ourselves.
00:23:11.221 --> 00:23:15.540
The opportunity by the way that we say hello in there.
00:23:17.096 --> 00:23:18.296
You are okay.
00:23:18.385 --> 00:23:20.006
Uh, you could come out now.
00:23:20.605 --> 00:23:22.645
I can make it safe for you.
00:23:23.605 --> 00:23:27.536
And that's the, the hello in there.
00:23:27.625 --> 00:23:37.526
Feels like if people are still with us today, right now, and just, but when we end, just go Hello in there to yourself.
00:23:38.490 --> 00:23:39.691
Love that.
00:23:40.441 --> 00:23:42.030
I love that.
00:23:43.260 --> 00:24:03.276
If this episode and our conversation has stirred something in you, if you felt an ache of a voice that's still locked inside or the pull to maybe speak more clearly or more boldly, more you, this is your sign.
00:24:04.395 --> 00:24:09.675
Come and explore the ME academy, and it's where we don't just talk about growth, we live it.
00:24:10.185 --> 00:24:19.965
It's where women over 45 rewrite the second half of their lives with more power, presence, and purpose than ever before.
00:24:20.895 --> 00:24:23.175
You can find all of this information.
00:24:24.270 --> 00:24:29.701
In the show notes, you can find all of the incredible information and Dr.
00:24:29.881 --> 00:24:35.161
Doreen Downing's gifts, what a calming presence you have.
00:24:35.641 --> 00:24:39.990
I want to thank you so much for being here so much.
00:24:40.471 --> 00:24:49.651
Yes, well, it's truly, truly, truly a wonderful moment to share with somebody else who has deep heart.
00:24:51.721 --> 00:24:51.990
Thank you.
00:24:52.861 --> 00:24:53.310
Thank you.
00:24:54.586 --> 00:24:59.865
Until next time, speak it, feel it fully.
00:25:00.046 --> 00:25:04.365
And don't forget, your next chapter is not a reinvention.
00:25:05.175 --> 00:25:07.786
It is a remembering.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.600
What if the very thing that you're here to teach.
00:00:03.717 --> 00:00:07.227
Is the thing you once feared the most.
00:00:07.227 --> 00:00:09.657
Welcome to Thrive after 45.
00:00:09.657 --> 00:00:16.077
The podcast where you remember the woman you were never meant to forget.
00:00:16.077 --> 00:00:16.707
I'm Denise.
00:00:16.707 --> 00:00:22.946
Drink Walter heart whisperer, midlife mirror, and mentor for the woman awakening to her power.
00:00:23.294 --> 00:00:32.863
This is your space to shed expectations, collapse timelines, and return to yourself for you by you because of you.
00:00:32.863 --> 00:00:40.124
It is an absolute honor and a privilege to welcome and reintroduce Dr.
00:00:40.124 --> 00:00:43.124
Doreen Downing to our show today.
00:00:43.124 --> 00:00:50.713
Doreen is not just a clinical psychologist with a doctorate from a very prestigious university.
00:00:50.713 --> 00:00:54.014
She's a woman who's cracked open.
00:00:54.014 --> 00:00:56.834
One of the most personal challenges.
00:00:56.834 --> 00:01:01.033
Any of us can face the fear of using our voice.
00:01:01.033 --> 00:01:13.903
Despite decades of expertise in human behavior, Doreen secretly struggled with intense public speaking anxiety, not nerves, but crippling avoidance.
00:01:13.903 --> 00:01:19.573
Instead of hiding behind the title, she chose to do the deep inner work.
00:01:19.573 --> 00:01:24.224
And what emerged is her life's signature contribution.
00:01:24.224 --> 00:01:29.504
The Find your Voice method, a powerful blend of psychology.
00:01:29.504 --> 00:01:35.653
Mindfulness and lived experience created to help others break free from silence.
00:01:35.653 --> 00:01:42.433
Finally, speaking their truth, whether in boardrooms, on stages, or in their own homes.
00:01:42.433 --> 00:01:46.183
She's mentored thousands over the past 45 years.
00:01:46.183 --> 00:01:52.581
She was a licensed, she was licensed as a psychotherapist in California in 1980 and today.
00:01:52.876 --> 00:02:00.406
She's a fearless speaking mentor who helps people stop performing and start expressing.
00:02:00.406 --> 00:02:04.486
Welcome, welcome, welcome to our show today.
00:02:04.486 --> 00:02:07.756
Oh, Denise, that was fabulous.
00:02:07.756 --> 00:02:20.295
I know I gave you a few, uh, lines too about myself, but what you just did to integrate and make it, uh, very, it was just beautiful.
00:02:20.295 --> 00:02:26.781
I just wanna say thank you for whatever you added to it to make it feel like, yeah, that's my truth.
00:02:27.510 --> 00:02:33.631
It is absolutely my truth and I feel kind of teary just having it reflected back to me.
00:02:35.281 --> 00:02:35.730
Wow.
00:02:35.820 --> 00:02:37.471
It, it did life.
00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:39.906
Well, it's.
00:02:40.681 --> 00:02:54.300
It's been an amazing journey and I can't even begin to understand the depths of which you've had to reach to get to what you are doing now.
00:02:54.721 --> 00:03:03.570
I mentioned in the opening sentence, what if your biggest fear became your life's purpose and you moved?
00:03:04.216 --> 00:03:09.735
People and mountains through everything you've grown and learned.
00:03:09.765 --> 00:03:11.656
And that's exactly what you do.
00:03:12.256 --> 00:03:12.436
Yes.
00:03:12.496 --> 00:03:14.566
And it's, it's amazing.
00:03:14.566 --> 00:03:14.626
Yeah.
00:03:15.165 --> 00:03:21.836
It shows all of us what is truly possible instead of letting the fear take us over.
00:03:22.816 --> 00:03:27.735
I know, or even try and, um, battle the fear and do it anyway.
00:03:27.735 --> 00:03:37.665
I know that that's a, it's a, it's a strategy for some, but for, uh, more sensitive types, like myself, I, Ooh, I, I couldn't do it.
00:03:37.665 --> 00:03:38.235
I couldn't just.
00:03:38.925 --> 00:03:43.966
Pretend or knuckle my way through, or memorize, memorize, memorize.
00:03:44.145 --> 00:03:50.656
I have to tell you, when I was in Toastmasters, I would memorize a five minute speech.
00:03:51.075 --> 00:03:51.286
Right.
00:03:51.316 --> 00:03:53.836
And I would do it maybe 50 times.
00:03:53.895 --> 00:03:58.515
Nevertheless, when I got up in front of folks, I'd forget.
00:03:59.596 --> 00:03:59.955
Yeah.
00:04:01.006 --> 00:04:03.286
And I know that, uh, that's.
00:04:04.036 --> 00:04:19.456
That's part of the problem is not being able to stand in the very present moment with whatever, whoever's in front of you and be able to say, ah, take my breath, come back and feel the words coming from within me as opposed to my script.
00:04:20.656 --> 00:04:21.105
Yeah.
00:04:22.605 --> 00:04:23.415
Powerful.
00:04:23.805 --> 00:04:24.915
There's nothing like it.
00:04:26.146 --> 00:04:32.475
It's, it's like you're, you're tapping in like you've said before, to your truth.
00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:33.571
Yes.
00:04:33.841 --> 00:04:34.050
Yeah.
00:04:34.050 --> 00:04:35.161
And that's a practice.
00:04:35.161 --> 00:04:47.190
I mean, it's a learning journey and that's what's so exciting, having been a psychologist for 45 years here, that it really is a journey to what, who you are deeply inside.
00:04:47.190 --> 00:04:55.411
Not all the layers that you've developed, like pleasing or pretending or, you know, all the kind of P words.
00:04:55.951 --> 00:05:00.151
Yeah, the, the performance.
00:05:00.180 --> 00:05:00.630
Yes.
00:05:00.696 --> 00:05:17.225
Not about and, but in, in, it's kind of difficult, I have to say, to be a stand for coming back to a quiet inner truth that you know, and learning how to access that.
00:05:17.826 --> 00:05:18.906
That's one layer.
00:05:18.906 --> 00:05:22.341
And then how to express it and then how to deal with.
00:05:23.011 --> 00:05:25.170
Whatever happens after you express it.
00:05:26.670 --> 00:05:33.781
And is there, have you found, or even with the people that you've worked with, thank heavens you're doing this work.
00:05:33.781 --> 00:05:37.891
I'm so grateful that you are doing this work.
00:05:38.221 --> 00:05:46.531
Um, have you found any of those layers in particular more challenging or is it a whole package or is it dependent on the person?
00:05:47.221 --> 00:05:48.375
Well, I'd say they're patterns.
00:05:49.130 --> 00:05:49.420
Okay.
00:05:49.420 --> 00:05:57.771
'cause you, you know that there are all sorts of assessments, personality styles, Myers Briggs, are you introvert or an extrovert.
00:05:57.771 --> 00:06:00.350
And so I think that first.
00:06:00.795 --> 00:06:04.516
I, I don't wanna use a particular assessment.
00:06:04.755 --> 00:06:04.846
Sure.
00:06:04.846 --> 00:06:09.286
First, I just wanna help people understand their patterns.
00:06:09.466 --> 00:06:10.005
Mm.
00:06:10.096 --> 00:06:15.675
And it does seem to kind of fall into some categories, some of which I just started to talk about.
00:06:16.216 --> 00:06:17.415
Uh, how do you.
00:06:18.190 --> 00:06:21.821
Avoid speaking up and expressing your truth.
00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.281
I love what you said about from the boardroom.
00:06:24.401 --> 00:06:26.680
Well, it's actually from the boardroom to the bedroom.
00:06:27.610 --> 00:06:27.946
There you go.
00:06:28.045 --> 00:06:29.050
Is your most Yeah.
00:06:29.050 --> 00:06:32.230
Your voice is your most, uh, valuable asset.
00:06:32.290 --> 00:06:37.810
And so first of all, where are the places where you feel like your silenced?
00:06:37.810 --> 00:06:39.266
I'm gonna put my hand over my mouth.
00:06:40.380 --> 00:06:43.711
You know where you hold back or where you get scared.
00:06:44.100 --> 00:06:47.880
Those are the, that's the first step in this in self discovery.
00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:48.420
Mm-hmm.
00:06:48.661 --> 00:06:56.221
I'm, what I do is, my work is more about people who wanna be more of who they are, not just that are speakers.
00:06:58.651 --> 00:06:59.490
Say that again.
00:06:59.521 --> 00:07:00.331
'cause that was brilliant.
00:07:00.331 --> 00:07:01.050
That was perfect.
00:07:01.050 --> 00:07:01.980
That was perfect.
00:07:02.880 --> 00:07:03.451
Yeah.
00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:13.471
Well, that's, that's, uh, my work is not about helping people be better speakers and making better speeches and being better performers.
00:07:14.290 --> 00:07:32.201
Oh, I want people to be truly lined up with who they are, who they're meant to be, their, and I think that it's a, it's a deeper place inside of us that we have to go to access, but you also have to learn how to make that inner journey.
00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:38.651
And that's why I love the guiding to me, Denise, to me, I love travel.
00:07:38.846 --> 00:07:39.266
Mm-hmm.
00:07:40.110 --> 00:07:50.341
I love to go to a new, any place, but a country or a city or even just out in nature and open myself up to explore.
00:07:50.430 --> 00:07:58.290
And that's the what I bring, I think, to people who wanna go within, because most people don't know how to do inner work.
00:07:59.071 --> 00:08:00.600
You know, they need a guide.
00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:03.805
And so I feel like I, that's what my whole life is now.
00:08:04.456 --> 00:08:05.055
Whole life.
00:08:05.925 --> 00:08:20.776
My training, like you said, my lived experience, I thought that was a way to to say it has been about how to go within face fear, learn how to embrace it, and then replace it.
00:08:21.136 --> 00:08:24.526
And those three are part of a training I do.
00:08:25.336 --> 00:08:29.146
Um, base embrace, replace fear.
00:08:29.971 --> 00:08:30.661
Mm.
00:08:31.170 --> 00:08:31.350
Love that.
00:08:31.355 --> 00:08:36.780
It's, it's a lot easier than what people, you know, because they get afraid to face their fear.
00:08:36.780 --> 00:08:41.551
Well, I know some ways you can, and it's gonna be maybe even a little fun.
00:08:43.081 --> 00:08:46.230
Thank you for saying that because I.
00:08:46.660 --> 00:08:51.551
Beat on this drama lot, and so I'm so glad that you shared.
00:08:52.061 --> 00:09:05.020
We make this fear into the biggest, darkest blackest cloud that we could ever hold, and it's safer just to avoid it instead of going into it.
00:09:05.471 --> 00:09:14.711
But what I heard you say is it's, it can be even fun because we explore in ways we wouldn't normally do.
00:09:15.706 --> 00:09:16.875
Oh, yes.
00:09:17.176 --> 00:09:27.586
And what, to me, with this, uh, inner journey of facing fear and learning how to, there's a, a quote, what's in your way is the way.
00:09:29.160 --> 00:09:46.110
What's in your way is the way, and that is, I think one of the guideposts is say, okay, if it's in your way, let's just, I love the idea of, I'm a big sister anyway, so I love the idea of taking somebody's hand and just saying, oh, look at that.
00:09:46.140 --> 00:09:52.711
And then learning how that, yes, it was perhaps a survival mechanism, uh, that they.
00:09:52.995 --> 00:09:58.696
You know that they figured out, luckily early in life to protect themselves, but sure.
00:09:59.056 --> 00:10:03.346
Let's, let's appreciate the fact that the fear did that for you.
00:10:04.186 --> 00:10:05.985
Yes, right.
00:10:05.985 --> 00:10:06.855
Thank that fear.
00:10:07.456 --> 00:10:09.135
Yes, thank you.
00:10:09.436 --> 00:10:10.066
Good guy.
00:10:12.765 --> 00:10:13.245
There you go.
00:10:13.245 --> 00:10:14.326
There you go.
00:10:15.015 --> 00:10:15.316
So.
00:10:17.025 --> 00:10:26.475
What do most people get wrong about fear and, and how do we actually start listening to what our fear is actually trying to teach us?
00:10:26.836 --> 00:10:27.255
Hmm.
00:10:27.316 --> 00:10:28.875
Great questions, both of them.
00:10:29.355 --> 00:10:33.015
The first, I'll go for the last one and I'll, I Sure, sure.
00:10:33.436 --> 00:10:35.115
I'm not sure I'll remember the first question.
00:10:35.235 --> 00:10:35.505
It's okay.
00:10:35.505 --> 00:10:38.596
Last that's, I could repeat the listening.
00:10:39.301 --> 00:10:48.961
Because I think that's the, that is the absolute key to inner work is being able to, I'll just do it right now.
00:10:48.990 --> 00:10:57.931
Just take a breath, calm the whole nervous system down, and to have a place of a quiet observer.
00:11:00.046 --> 00:11:10.846
That's through regulating your body so that you are, your heart isn't beating fast, and you're able to feel grounded in your belly and your feet.
00:11:11.025 --> 00:11:17.145
You know that there's a grounded sense of being in this very, now, maybe even close the eyes.
00:11:17.446 --> 00:11:21.525
I mean, it's, it's kind of hypnotic, but uh, it is a way of.
00:11:23.701 --> 00:11:31.530
Preparing yourself to face something that you know has been an impediment that's been difficult for you.
00:11:31.530 --> 00:11:40.321
So you train yourself to be a quiet observer, nonjudgmental, and not really trying to.
00:11:41.235 --> 00:11:45.855
Change the fear, but to learn about it.
00:11:45.916 --> 00:11:47.475
To explore it.
00:11:47.475 --> 00:11:56.865
So that's the kind of listening that I think is, uh, one that gets, gets the truth, gets closer to the truth.
00:11:56.870 --> 00:11:57.150
Right?
00:11:58.306 --> 00:12:01.456
An animal that's been, uh, wounded.
00:12:01.696 --> 00:12:07.216
'cause that's what we're talking about, our wounded voice, uh, that you've gotta approach very gently.
00:12:07.306 --> 00:12:07.395
Mm-hmm.
00:12:09.061 --> 00:12:15.360
Slowly, and that seems to be the same truth about how to approach fear.
00:12:15.870 --> 00:12:16.260
Yeah.
00:12:16.260 --> 00:12:17.280
I love that.
00:12:17.821 --> 00:12:22.591
What I'm hearing you say is that you sit with it.
00:12:23.100 --> 00:12:23.520
Mm-hmm.
00:12:23.581 --> 00:12:32.191
And I love how you said, don't be judgmental, just be at one with it and try to pull that lens of curiosity.
00:12:33.030 --> 00:12:34.321
Ooh, that's a nice way to say it.
00:12:34.530 --> 00:12:36.211
Lens of curiosity.
00:12:36.211 --> 00:12:36.421
Yes.
00:12:37.905 --> 00:12:39.586
Ah, what can I learn here?
00:12:40.155 --> 00:12:45.135
What, uh, you know, so it, it, it's just a whole different approach.
00:12:45.135 --> 00:12:48.316
So I think your first question is what do people get wrong about fear?
00:12:48.316 --> 00:12:48.405
Right.
00:12:48.975 --> 00:12:49.666
I remembered.
00:12:49.696 --> 00:12:50.025
Okay.
00:12:50.566 --> 00:12:55.635
So what I think they get wrong about fear is that they can't do anything about it.
00:12:55.635 --> 00:13:00.796
And that it's, uh, it's something, it is what you said a few minutes ago.
00:13:00.796 --> 00:13:05.145
It's this huge big obstacle that, uh, is.
00:13:05.775 --> 00:13:14.566
It's just too, it, it creates too much terror in their body that they, and there is some truth about trauma, right?
00:13:14.566 --> 00:13:18.826
And we don't wanna activate or reactivate trauma.
00:13:19.096 --> 00:13:27.561
So that's why this new kind of deep, uh, listening with, with what you say cur curious lens.
00:13:27.561 --> 00:13:28.515
Curious lens, yeah.
00:13:28.576 --> 00:13:29.775
Lens of curiosity.
00:13:29.836 --> 00:13:30.105
Yeah.
00:13:30.105 --> 00:13:31.096
Curiosity.
00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:39.630
So that's, uh, so I think that they get what gets what people get wrong about fear is that it's too big, they can't approach it.
00:13:39.691 --> 00:13:51.510
And uh, other people can feel the fear and do it anyway, but they can't, so they don't, they don't really, they haven't learned that there is, there is an approach.
00:13:51.961 --> 00:13:53.010
Right, right.
00:13:53.071 --> 00:13:53.400
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:54.181 --> 00:13:54.600
That works.
00:13:54.691 --> 00:13:54.931
Exactly.
00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:57.995
And it doesn't have to be Toastmasters.
00:13:59.071 --> 00:14:07.020
Because that scary for so many of the people that I work with who have tried it and they feel like they go and it's not, it's not a safe place for them.
00:14:07.321 --> 00:14:08.341
For some it is.
00:14:08.341 --> 00:14:10.201
I'm not saying it's Sure.
00:14:10.230 --> 00:14:10.801
Sure.
00:14:11.071 --> 00:14:20.850
Yeah, and I mean, what you have talked about I think is really the next level.
00:14:21.451 --> 00:14:24.331
I mean, I'm not totally familiar with Toastmasters.
00:14:24.331 --> 00:14:31.980
I have a cursory view of what it is, but it's more just about how you present.
00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:36.600
It's a presentation part, and you are talking.
00:14:37.380 --> 00:14:51.541
Aligning yourself with whom you really are and taking yourself and sharing that in a way that exudes not only confidence, but comfort from within.
00:14:54.600 --> 00:15:08.701
You capture so much of the work that I do and such great words, uh, you're, you're just, uh, you're like a, a poet who, uh, is able to reflect the truth.
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:09.541
Yes.
00:15:09.541 --> 00:15:21.270
That is what the way you just expressed it is it's about learning more about what's really true for yourself and finding, I would call it courageous confidence.
00:15:21.990 --> 00:15:23.100
To speak up.
00:15:23.701 --> 00:15:24.270
Love that.
00:15:24.961 --> 00:15:25.260
Yeah.
00:15:25.650 --> 00:15:25.890
Yeah.
00:15:25.890 --> 00:15:26.640
I love that.
00:15:26.640 --> 00:15:27.390
I love that.
00:15:27.990 --> 00:15:31.140
And you mentioned the three different levels.
00:15:31.291 --> 00:15:32.671
I can't remember the second one.
00:15:32.671 --> 00:15:41.221
The in inside, looking at your inside, and then the third part was about what comes back to you as you share.
00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:42.091
Yes.
00:15:42.211 --> 00:15:42.360
Yeah.
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:43.471
Your truth.
00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:44.130
Yeah.
00:15:44.130 --> 00:15:44.400
And.
00:15:44.836 --> 00:16:02.865
That in itself, I'm sure is an incredible journey for the people that you work with and how they get to learn, grow, and change by getting the feedback of what people hear or what they think they hear, right?
00:16:03.706 --> 00:16:03.885
Yeah.
00:16:03.885 --> 00:16:04.245
Yes.
00:16:04.306 --> 00:16:04.846
Yeah.
00:16:05.206 --> 00:16:06.556
So the, uh.
00:16:07.966 --> 00:16:22.966
A lot of times people are afraid to speak up and, and say what they really feel or what they really want because they're going to create something in the other person that they will then have to deal with.
00:16:22.966 --> 00:16:24.706
So that's what they're really avoiding.
00:16:24.946 --> 00:16:28.875
They're avoiding the consequence of expressing their truth.
00:16:29.385 --> 00:16:29.475
Yeah.
00:16:29.475 --> 00:16:31.186
And so, um.
00:16:32.025 --> 00:16:36.826
There are ways to express truth, especially let's say anger.
00:16:37.336 --> 00:16:37.905
Sure.
00:16:38.235 --> 00:16:48.855
In a way that's much more relational or compassionate or, you know, being able to really own your own truth rather than just a blasting at somebody.
00:16:49.186 --> 00:16:55.576
So I think those are some communication techniques that I think can help people when they're actually.
00:16:56.686 --> 00:17:01.755
More'cause there's the inner work and then of course there's the outer work of how to express it.
00:17:01.846 --> 00:17:09.526
And then, uh, if it goes wrong, how to say, oh, I actually meant to say this, this and that.
00:17:09.526 --> 00:17:09.645
Yeah.
00:17:09.855 --> 00:17:11.175
You know, like, yeah.
00:17:12.316 --> 00:17:12.615
Yeah.
00:17:12.885 --> 00:17:18.705
And or except that people have reactions and it's none of your business how they react to you.
00:17:19.096 --> 00:17:19.726
Right.
00:17:19.786 --> 00:17:20.596
Exactly.
00:17:20.596 --> 00:17:23.746
That's, that's theirs to own what they come back with.
00:17:24.540 --> 00:17:25.471
That's about you.
00:17:25.471 --> 00:17:26.671
That's not about me.
00:17:26.671 --> 00:17:40.560
And if there's learning for me to understand that I didn't send my message across the way it was in my body, my mind, my heart, my soul, I'll rework it so you, I know that you really understand what it is I was actually trying to share.
00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:41.191
Right?
00:17:41.580 --> 00:17:42.060
Yeah.
00:17:42.060 --> 00:17:42.070
Beautiful.
00:17:42.165 --> 00:17:42.385
Yes.
00:17:42.391 --> 00:17:42.510
Yeah.
00:17:42.540 --> 00:17:43.260
Yeah.
00:17:45.090 --> 00:17:51.931
What is the secret to being confident to express yourself without that fear standing in the way?
00:17:54.556 --> 00:17:54.675
Hmm.
00:17:56.266 --> 00:17:58.066
Ooh, the secret.
00:17:58.066 --> 00:18:00.046
Well, my book has seven secrets.
00:18:02.625 --> 00:18:03.556
Well, there we go.
00:18:03.556 --> 00:18:05.715
We're gonna get your book to get all seven.
00:18:05.715 --> 00:18:09.976
Is there one in particular that's really, I'm glad you said that.
00:18:10.006 --> 00:18:10.425
Yes.
00:18:10.455 --> 00:18:13.546
'cause I, I probably don't wanna go through all seven, but that's, yes.
00:18:14.046 --> 00:18:24.020
The, the process, the find your voice process that I, uh, develop based on my own expertise as a psychologist and my own lived experience, as you said.
00:18:24.020 --> 00:18:24.111
Yes.
00:18:24.141 --> 00:18:35.330
So, uh, the, see, the one that, oh, there's so many because there's aspects of it, but I would say, uh, all of them, just as a way of explaining what it is.
00:18:35.361 --> 00:18:41.000
Every single one of my seven secrets begins with Be b, e, be.
00:18:42.961 --> 00:18:52.500
I'll just say the first one is be still, the second one is be present and then on and on and on till the, the seventh secret is be yourself.
00:18:52.830 --> 00:18:55.320
So we don't start with being yourself.
00:18:55.681 --> 00:18:57.361
You have, that's the journey.
00:18:57.840 --> 00:19:03.181
So the stillness is the first learning how to still the.
00:19:03.796 --> 00:19:24.885
Mind the chatter, learning how to calm your beating heart, how to, uh, so that's the first is being still learning how to be still in the midst of maybe your heart is beating, but you can still have a centered, grounded, uh, sense of stillness inside.
00:19:25.125 --> 00:19:30.256
And so the second one, and I won't go further, but, and this is to me what.
00:19:31.185 --> 00:19:33.105
What's so powerful about that?
00:19:33.105 --> 00:19:34.786
My process is presence.
00:19:35.101 --> 00:19:35.520
Mm-hmm.
00:19:36.260 --> 00:19:36.681
Mm-hmm.
00:19:36.915 --> 00:19:49.276
Be present because so much of the fears in the past, whether it was family, teachers, other kids, teasing, absolutely.
00:19:49.455 --> 00:19:49.786
Culture.
00:19:50.865 --> 00:19:53.746
Thou shall not, you know, that kind of thing.
00:19:53.746 --> 00:20:00.736
Religion, all the reasons, the way that we've learned to hide ourselves and our voice.
00:20:02.641 --> 00:20:03.871
Is in the past.
00:20:03.871 --> 00:20:03.961
Mm-hmm.
00:20:04.201 --> 00:20:16.320
And then what we do is project it into the future, anticipating, uh oh, I better not, or else, uh, or if something happened in the past, it's gonna happen again.
00:20:16.681 --> 00:20:24.510
So learning how to take that breath, soften the eyes, that's another one of the lessons, but it's just.
00:20:25.711 --> 00:20:33.675
So the sockets around your eyes, cheeks begin to relax, shoulders drop, it's magic.
00:20:33.855 --> 00:20:37.816
You could do that in any meeting, right?
00:20:38.205 --> 00:20:38.655
Yeah.
00:20:39.435 --> 00:20:40.695
You don't have to go anywhere.
00:20:40.726 --> 00:20:45.286
You can just be literally, like you just said, be still be present, and Uhhuh.
00:20:45.316 --> 00:20:47.175
Do all of that inside yourself.
00:20:48.135 --> 00:20:50.326
Everything changes'cause you change your energy.
00:20:50.326 --> 00:20:52.875
We have so much power and control Yes.
00:20:52.905 --> 00:20:54.346
That we don't utilize.
00:20:54.675 --> 00:20:55.276
But when?
00:20:55.576 --> 00:20:57.105
When we don't know.
00:20:57.901 --> 00:21:00.840
We can't do, and that's why Dr.
00:21:00.840 --> 00:21:20.941
Doreen has so many incredible gifts to share with you and in our show notes, we absolutely will have how to connect with her and contact her and see all of the incredible things that she has out in the world right now to help all of us find our voice, right?
00:21:21.601 --> 00:21:21.961
Yeah.
00:21:22.080 --> 00:21:25.951
And be confident to express what matters most.
00:21:26.131 --> 00:21:26.641
Yeah.
00:21:27.286 --> 00:21:40.276
Oh, and that, and you said in the show, uh, right at the beginning of the show that it's, whether it's at home, some of the work that I do in teaching people how to listen, it changes their relationships.
00:21:41.026 --> 00:21:49.665
Yeah, people came back to me and said, I said that that's exactly what he's been wanting from me.
00:21:49.665 --> 00:21:51.016
All this or that.
00:21:51.016 --> 00:22:03.135
My wife is, you know, that kind, they, they report back the power of what they learn about being present and about really using the eyes to stay with.
00:22:03.135 --> 00:22:07.125
And, uh, listen with your eyes.
00:22:07.800 --> 00:22:10.891
I just feel like I could teach so much right now, but, so anyway.
00:22:11.010 --> 00:22:15.330
Listen with your eyes is another, is another teaching, I think.
00:22:15.361 --> 00:22:16.365
As opposed, yeah.
00:22:17.580 --> 00:22:19.381
Where you, or listen from your heart.
00:22:19.381 --> 00:22:20.070
Hello.
00:22:20.131 --> 00:22:22.441
That's a beautiful instruction, isn't it?
00:22:22.441 --> 00:22:22.951
Listen.
00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:23.070
Mm-hmm.
00:22:23.490 --> 00:22:24.060
Listening.
00:22:24.121 --> 00:22:24.631
Yes.
00:22:24.871 --> 00:22:25.201
Yeah.
00:22:25.830 --> 00:22:25.980
Yeah.
00:22:28.020 --> 00:22:35.790
Before we close, is there anything that you would absolutely love to leave our audience with today?
00:22:36.211 --> 00:22:37.590
Any closing remarks?
00:22:37.590 --> 00:22:43.441
Any closing comments that are coming up for you that you wanna make sure land on?
00:22:43.891 --> 00:22:46.800
Two ears for each audience member.
00:22:48.840 --> 00:23:10.770
Well, I would say the second step about facing and embracing the way that we are with ourselves in terms of, um, being kind and gentle and patient and being our own, I guess you might say something like medicine that we bring to ourselves.
00:23:11.221 --> 00:23:15.540
The opportunity by the way that we say hello in there.
00:23:17.096 --> 00:23:18.296
You are okay.
00:23:18.385 --> 00:23:20.006
Uh, you could come out now.
00:23:20.605 --> 00:23:22.645
I can make it safe for you.
00:23:23.605 --> 00:23:27.536
And that's the, the hello in there.
00:23:27.625 --> 00:23:37.526
Feels like if people are still with us today, right now, and just, but when we end, just go Hello in there to yourself.
00:23:38.490 --> 00:23:39.691
Love that.
00:23:40.441 --> 00:23:42.030
I love that.
00:23:43.260 --> 00:24:03.276
If this episode and our conversation has stirred something in you, if you felt an ache of a voice that's still locked inside or the pull to maybe speak more clearly or more boldly, more you, this is your sign.
00:24:04.395 --> 00:24:09.675
Come and explore the ME academy, and it's where we don't just talk about growth, we live it.
00:24:10.185 --> 00:24:19.965
It's where women over 45 rewrite the second half of their lives with more power, presence, and purpose than ever before.
00:24:20.895 --> 00:24:23.175
You can find all of this information.
00:24:24.270 --> 00:24:29.701
In the show notes, you can find all of the incredible information and Dr.
00:24:29.881 --> 00:24:35.161
Doreen Downing's gifts, what a calming presence you have.
00:24:35.641 --> 00:24:39.990
I want to thank you so much for being here so much.
00:24:40.471 --> 00:24:49.651
Yes, well, it's truly, truly, truly a wonderful moment to share with somebody else who has deep heart.
00:24:51.721 --> 00:24:51.990
Thank you.
00:24:52.861 --> 00:24:53.310
Thank you.
00:24:54.586 --> 00:24:59.865
Until next time, speak it, feel it fully.
00:25:00.046 --> 00:25:04.365
And don't forget, your next chapter is not a reinvention.
00:25:05.175 --> 00:25:07.786
It is a remembering.