Go, Then Decide with Maria Kamau

Hello and welcome to today's episode of Thrive After 45. I'm Denise Drinkwalter, midlife mentor and mirror, and every week I am so honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45. Together we'll uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion, because when one woman turns her light on, the rest of the room catches fire. What if the thing keeping you home isn't the cost of the ticket or the language you don't speak or the fear of getting lost, but simply the belief that someone else has to plan it for you first? For 37 years, our guest today has been proving that belief is wrong. She sets foot in 100 countries across five continents, not on sabbatical, not between jobs, but while working full-time as a health data specialist for over 20 years, she kept boarding planes, kept figuring things out on the ground, and kept coming home with more confidence than she had left with. For a stretch of that career, she ran her own travel agency, helping more than 300 people plan and execute those trips that they've been putting off, and then she started noticing something. The women who came to her didn't just need a booking. They needed to actually believe that they could do this themselves. So in 2022, Maria stepped away from employment and stepped fully into travel coaching, not planning itineraries for her clients, but handing them the tools, the confidence, and the self-awareness to plan their own trips on their own terms. She has already gli- guided close to 20 women from, "I don't know how to do this," to, "I know exactly what I'm doing." It is an honor and a privilege to welcome an ICF certified travel coach and bodacious adventurer, Maria Camus. Welcome to our show today. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so honored to be here. Thank you, Denise. Can you help us understand how people think about travel- collectively? What is something that comes through collectively when you hear people say, "I wanna travel"? Because honestly, isn't that the dream, right? I wanna- Yes, indeed finish my job and I wanna be able to travel. We all say it. What does that really mean? Wow. And that's a great question, because it doesn't matter where we are in the world, what stage of life, and particularly women. Travel is for the wealthy or those who have a lot of time, very brave and courageous, and smart too. Um, and, uh, people who are adventurous. Just, just about all powerful things about a person that is not them themselves. So it's for those other people. It's for the foreigners, especially for us in Africa with the, what we say are all the challenges of life. Yeah. There are no challenges anywhere else in the world. And it's just, yeah, for those others. It's for those others, not me. So how do we begin if we have this idea that I wanna travel, and you probably hear this a fair amount. Mm. I wanna travel when I'm retired, because then- Oh, yes I will have the time and the freedom. Yes. And yeah, that too. I didn't put that in the category. That's okay. Yes, for those who are retired. Yeah. For those who are older. And then when they get older, they say, "No, I'm too old now. It's..." It- I love what you're saying. Let's tap into that further, because we put it out there and say, "This is when I have the time. This is when it's the dream." And then when the dream opportunity is in front of you, "Well- Yeah my knee gave out, and- Yeah I'm afraid of my ba-" So how do we actually, when we say these words, "I'm going to travel," how do we actually move the needle so that begins to happen for us? 'Cause I'm sure there's a lot of us in the audience that are like, "I'd love to travel, but can't, can't," right? Yes. Wow. The first step really is to realize that if you enjoy doing something, the best time to do it is now. It's not for tomorrow. It's not for next week. Think of you like sports, you like interacting with socially, you like gardening. Yeah. You like the things that give you joy- Mm-hmm especially outside of work, especially beside our what we may consider mundane or routine day-to-day lives of taking care of everyone around us, be- working hard at our jobs, in our social communities, in church. If travel is your thing, and I emphasize this because travel is not for everyone. It's one of those we'd all like to. It's what is all in our faces, but it's not necessarily what everybody enjoys. Yeah. And certainly not in the same way and the same style. Mm-hmm. So first thing is better now when you have the energy. Yeah. And the first thing for women particularly is give yourself permission. Allow yourself to dream and identify yourself with that dream, associate with it without apology, and then little actions towards your desires. I keep telling people, "You're not moving out of home. You just take- You're stepping away. You're taking a few days. You're not, what, running away from your life, from your family, from your work. You're just taking a break to do something that gives you joy, and then you step back." Yeah. So give yourself permission, embrace it, talk about it, it's a joy. Yeah. And then take that step, you know- Love that to start acting towards it. Yeah. So many things in what you just shared right there. So brilliant. It- you're not leaving and everything is, you're not selling s- lock, stock, and barrel, and that's it, now I can never return. Any d- choice and decision we make in life, right? Yeah. We get to, "You know what? That didn't work out." Mm-hmm. "I'm gonna go back to..." We have the power to make those decisions, and as we talk about in our show all the time, you're doing this for you, by you, because of you, right? Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. It's for you. Yeah. Yes. It's You take, especially women, we take care of everybody else. We take care of everyone else's needs. What, what about you? Mm. In fact, when Mommy or Auntie or Sister is doing well, everybody else does well. Take care of yourself first. And it's so interesting that in many circumstances, people use the example of the emergency advice given on planes when you travel. Yes. In the unlikely event of an emergency and the oxygen thingies that come down- Yeah. attend to yourselves first- Yeah before you attend to anyone else, not even if it is your child, because you take care of you first, and this, we're talking seconds. Take care of yourself first, then take care of the others. So the same thing in travel. Take g- care of yourself. You're not asking for months, years away, just a short while- Yeah and then you get back and take care of everyone else. What do you notice is one of the hardest things, the most challenging things for women when they want to m- to take time away and do w- one travel, not travel-travel for the year or anything. Just what is the hardest thing, the most challenging thing that they have to come to, quote-unquote, terms with in order to be able to take that trip? Good question. I think the, the hardest thing is accepting that people will be okay while you're away, number one, and number two- People will be okay with your decision once they know that you have made that decision. People adjust to you, not you to them. Ooh. And women find that very difficult to- Yeah to realize because they don't do it enough for, for things outside the normal. There's a way mommy does things in the house, and once mommy has said, "This is the way it's gonna go," yeah? If you're assertive in the workplace, you're assertive, but for themselves, women find it very difficult to use that assert- Mm-hmm for themselves. Yes. That it's interesting that if it is a work assignment, and you have to travel, you will honor that. You will figure out what needs to happen at home so that you can take the travel. Yeah. But when it's for you- It somehow, it's just not related. Yeah, that's for work, this is for me. Yeah. And particularly if that involves spending my own resources. Women earn money. Right. They work so hard for it. Mm-hmm. They put it away. Everyone else, but for themselves, they feel guilty. In fact, that's the word. Yeah. That guilt, the self-guilt- Yeah that I can do something for me- Yeah without having to explain myself. Yep. And it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Very powerful. So, do you have any examples or any words that y- come to mind of people who have had that teetering, and, "I'm just gonna do it, and it's tough, but I made the decision and I'm, I've decided and everybody knows I'm going off and it's my time." And when they come back, what has happened as a result of them taking time for them, by them be- because of themselves? Is there a, do you have anything that shows the result of doing that? It's interesting. I think it's just, uh, building their own confidence. So this, this one lady, when you ask that question, one of the ones that comes to mind that doesn't exactly fit, but the interesting thing about her is that she had been traveling for 10 years. She's holding a full-time job. She's, has family out, so she's based in Kenya, but she has family in Europe and the US. Okay. And she'd been traveling for 10 years, and had never made any arrangements herself, ever. And so she would just, they would book the things for her, and she would ask for permission and ask her like, "So how do you arrange it?" She's like, "The travel agent." Yeah. "She does this for me. She even checks in for me online and reminds me to go to the airport." And I was like, "Okay, let's just, at least you've come." Yeah. "Let's do this together." Yeah. "I'm not going to do any booking for you. I will just guide you." Yeah. "Everything you do is gonna be on your own." Yeah. So the first thing we did, which was basic, was, okay, you've arranged with the travel agent, let's find that flight online. Yep. And then ask her to reserve the same- Yeah and just look at the price. And so the first thing when we landed, it was like, I don't know, something like 100 and hun- $150 difference, and I said, "That's what you pay for so that someone checks in for you online- Right and sends you a reminder." Mm. Which you can do yourself. Then the next thing, she was like, "Now, I don't know about traveling and the layovers and blah, blah, blah." All the things that once you've been doing it a lot for yourself, it seems easy, but for someone who's never done it- Yes it is quite fascinating to hear all the little steps of fear. She's- Mm traveled before, but she's now concerned booking for herself, using her credit card, which she uses for so many other things. Right. Layovers, and then how am I going to, how am I going to book activities? Yeah, visit my, my family, but I'm usually at home and do everything with them. So I showed her how to book an activity. Mm-hmm. And so this was the first time she's doing it, and she would tell me every step of the way, even using an eSIM. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. And so she traveled, and then she came back, and I was trying to reach out to, to find out how did it go. I'm looking for feedback. I was surprised because she's, even before the day I landed- Yeah I have already booked my next flight in the next week, four weeks. I have booked my activities. I've already told my supervisor I'm taking the time off, and I'm heading out. I was so impressed. Wow. Yeah. She's like, "This is so easy." And it's, it was such a small thing. It was- Yeah just a flight, and I couldn't believe that. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That was i- impressive. Just, just- Yeah handholding and allowing her to give herself that permission. She has since done, I don't know, three, four trips and just- Yeah book it. She's like, "Oh, for the first time now I'm leaving my family behind. I'm going off- Right into the, which- whichever direction." And it's amazing. She's deep. Yeah. That's the first time she's ever done that in her life. I'm so proud of her. Yeah. The other one recently was interesting that a lady is traveling with her son. Mm. And she's, of course, it's her son. It's Gen Z. Yep. Planning activities that are common to both is a tight balance. Sure. And so she was sharing me, "Oh, they want to go and do this go-karting thing." And I asked her, "You know you don't have to go with him? He's an adult." Yeah. "You can stay." And what she was telling me is, "I'm just going to feel so tired. I just want to sleep." And I told her, "You know you actually can?" Yeah. And she's such, she says- Thank you for that. We can actually stay back and let him go. Oh. Small things. Small, just so empowering. Like- Yeah you know you have a choice. Yeah. You are a different person. They're a different character. Yeah. And a th- third example, very quickly, is a lady who just, of course, we tend to go with your children, and you want them to also be exposed, not realizing they're different characters- Yeah they have different interests. And so shock on her when her kids said, "We don't want to travel with you anymore." Yeah. What did I do wrong? Nothing. They're growing, and this is what we want. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. So just, it's in the small things. Just you are a distinct person. You have- Yeah your interests, and it's okay. In fact, if you- Yeah travel with others, this is the thing I keep reminding them. When you travel with others, the important thing is understand yourself as a traveler, understand your different interests. Mm-hmm. And just when you sit at a table with a group of friends and everybody orders things so differently, "I don't do chicken. I'm only vegetarian. I am, I have to do the meat, a big chunk." Yeah. And we give each other the freedom to be that and still interact with each other with joy. Same with travel. Yeah. If you want to travel with others- Yeah then first step is understand what your interests, your needs. Yes, you want company, but not everyone travels like you. No one, not everyone- Yeah has the same interests. Uh, give each other that space or travel alone. That's a that's another one that's, yeah, a difficult one, but yeah. Yeah, I- Yeah yeah, that's what comes to mind. Beautiful. I love your example. Sitting down for a meal when you're all out, you don't all order the same thing, and nobody bats an eye. Make sure that you order what you want to have on your- Exactly travel menu, right? Love it. Exactly. Exactly. Love it. And understand each other as friends. Yeah. One of the things I coach is when you understand yourself as a traveler and your style- Yep it helps you also choose your travel buddies with caution- Yeah selectivity. Just so that you increase the likelihood you will both enjoy the experience- Mm-hmm or just travel separately. Yep. And it can be as simple as- I prefer the higher standard, the five-star experience, and I prefer the three-star experience. We both have different budgets. Yeah. Even our lifestyle is different. Sure. Trying to travel together when you have that kind of difference can raise conflict. Yeah. And because we tend to, the travel that we enjoy the most is when we travel out to another country or out of our comfort zone, you want to minimize the conflicts when you're away- Yeah and you're together. Yeah. So better you iron out these things before you go so that let's agree to- Yeah either travel separately for the peace of, you know- Yeah each other. Yeah. Yeah. And it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's absolutely okay. And what I'm hearing too is that communication is key. Indeed. Knowing what it is that you're looking for in your trip is important, so really understand why am I going- Yes and what is it that I want to experience, and then what do I need to put on the table in terms of here's what I'm thinking about. Oh, you're- Mm-hmm not thinking the same? Oh, and then- Mm-hmm put it all out. Mm-hmm. Good communication, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Very good. I, I, in this case, I is important. Yeah, love that. So that we can understand. Yeah. We try to minimize it, but in this circumstance where we're going to spend resources, we are going to spend time- Yes let's be clear. Let's just be open. Let's just- Yeah have an understanding of each other because we assume. Yeah. Let's go to Paris, and we all want to- I don't know, stay out clubbing while somebody else- Yeah wants to go to the museum, and instead of going all the way there, let's, let's talk about it here and see- Love that something we can work out. Love that. And for families too, not just friends. Yep. Makes sense. Mom, Dad, kids particularly- Yeah even if they're, unless they're underage- Of course long as they can speak their mind. Yeah. Let's have a discussion before we go. Mm-hmm. Let's put everything on the table. Yeah. Let's negotiate. I had a very nice encounter. As the coaching, as you indicated, is relatively new, so it's evolving. Yeah. So I did have a good experience with a family. It was the first experience. I usually coach women or w- I've even coached women and a woman and her partner. Yeah. But the family one was interest because the first day, Mommy and Daddy were doing all the talking, and I noticed the teenage boys were kinda, like, on the side, and so I just made a soft request. Yeah. Could you guys let the boys, you know- Yep come upfront, and then they'll also participate. Yeah. They're teenagers. They also have their interests. It worked out better than- Ah all of us expected because they took charge. Mommy and Daddy let them do all the searching, the research, organizing- Love it the activities, and then with the understanding that, yeah, we want you guys to have a good time, but there is one or two things, we will do everything with you, but there's also something that's important to us. Yeah. One outstanding was that, "Mommy, we must go to church on a Sunday. I know it's holiday time. We must." Everybody knows Mommy, that's important. So perhaps if they weren't traveling with Mommy, that might not be on the agenda, but- Yeah they live with, so the two boys, Dad, that's got to be in the schedule, and we are going to organize our itinerary for that day around that. So in the end, everybody gets their space, their joy- Yeah and supports everyone else. Love that. And that works out just by talking about it and- You may have been unaware, but as people express themselves- Mm-hmm then you negotiate. And you even find that there are many activities listed, you'd expect something the boys would want to do, and they're like, "That, for that cost? No, we can do our-" Yeah way with it. And so you find that participation really brings everyone together and makes it fun because everyone has been heard. Yeah. Everyone has been negotiated. Yeah. Negotiation is together. Yeah. So that's a holiday they'll be talking about for years. Totally. Re- remember when, right? Exactly. Yeah. And, and honestly, isn't that what people want when they travel, is making those memories? Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So let's go back to something you said a while ago about, that's group stuff. Mm-hmm. Let's go back to solo travel, 'cause that opens up a whole new level of opportunity. I'm gonna call it that. So tell us some key pieces so that our audience can kinda start to sift and sort, "You know what? I've been thinking about traveling solo." Mm-hmm. "I'm scared, 'cause I'm always got somebody with me, and I can talk to someone- Mm-hmm and I can find my way." Yes. Yeah. What are two or three things that you see and have experienced that are imperative for a solo traveler? The, let me say the most common- Yeah it's more or less the more obvious, but it doesn't seem so obvious- Yeah is traveling alone, first and foremost, enables you, gives you a lot more room and choice, because you do what you want when you don't, when you want- Yeah and when you don't want. Yeah. You not, you don't have to refer to anyone. Mm-hmm. The whole itinerary is up to you. You could even book things and cancel them at will. You go according to your feel, and the activities are really around your preference. Yeah. In a good way, according to your budget. Uh, and which is really a gift. Yeah. We are social- Yeah and we are always having to adjust to everyone else's needs. Okay, putting everyone- Yeah first or trying to adjust or balance. Balance. But it really makes a difference, and I've had the experience because I didn't start solo. I started traveling with my sister, and fortunately for both of us, we enjoyed it a lot because we found that we, uh, a lot of things are common. Our interests are generally common, and she would generally also go with the flow because I'm the older sister, so. You've trained her well. I love it. Yeah. Which is a bit unfair, but yeah, it is what it is. It was- Yep and she's easy anyway. Yeah. Yeah. But one thing I noticed, which I'm going to point out- Yeah the issue with that later was that I, she was ahead of technology in terms of- Okay use of money and cards and such. Sure. And I would leave that to her. I wouldn't even bother trying to think, "How does it work?" I wouldn't even have a backup. Yep. And she was always with me, so any emergency or anything, she was there. Yeah. So when I started traveling, and solo because life happens. Yeah. Yep. So she got busy. Yeah, I was not always, more recently, we're not able- Yeah to travel together. Okay. One thing I noticed is how much I hadn't been paying attention to things- Mm like at work, because there's always someone with me. Yeah. So your self-awareness, first of all, is heightened. Sure. And you pay more attention because you're on your own. Yeah. But the most important thing is that you also interact a lot more with people ar- around you because you don't have someone with you. It can turn to be, yeah, of course, at first, just like first day at work, first day at school, you don't know anybody. Yep. So you have to figure your way around- Mm with the language problem or whatever. Sure. But everybody is, uh, it's not there to serve you, but people are helpful, a lot more helpful than the scary movies or the news. Right. Like, yes, the world- Yeah is so much more friendlier. And really- You are there particularly as a tourist for leisure. Sure. Uh, even for relocation, you just need to ask for help. Yeah. You interact with, there are people everywhere. You're going to have to interact with people one way or the other. That's right. Uh- Sure the accommodation, you join a tour. Yeah. The people on, in the market, in the streets. Yeah. There are people everywhere, and so- Yeah you will pay more attention, you will socialize with others a little, and you become self-aware. The best thing about solo travel is that you start to discover yourself in a way it, it's not, you wouldn't even have anticipated. Because you're completely out of your comfort zone, in a different arena, and you're starting to learn who you really are- Yeah without the people who know you- Yeah and the environment that you're used to- Yeah being around you or near you. You really come face to face with yourself. Who am I? What do I enjoy? Yeah. We don't, it, you can't even take a self-retreat at home and get to that. Yeah. No. Being- Yeah out of the country, being, not necessarily out of the country, but completely in a place where nobody knows you. Sure. Um, and no- nobody knows you, and it's a new place to you. You will come face to face with yourself. And it's- Love that more empowering than it is disempowering. It's really- Mm-hmm a moment of, it's surreal. Yeah. It's like, "Oh, wow." Wow. Yeah. And I can s- I can survive. I can survive sounds a bit dramatic, but I can take care of myself. I have- Yeah done so much. I have been through so much. I am- Yeah here. I'm, even the gift of being able to arrange a solo trip and be there, it's- Yeah it's such a joy. It's really builds your confidence. It increases gratitude, at least in my experience. Yeah. Yeah. It helps you step away from the things that may bother you from day to day, and see them from- Yep a different perspective. Yep. And maybe have new ideas, new response, or different response- Mm-hmm which hopefully is positive. And then- Solo travel also, I don't know, I must have gone to part three, four, five. Anyway. It's okay. It's all good. Solo travel also gives you the courage to do things in other ways, not just travel. Mm-hmm. So you start to build confidence in yourself as someone who can do things different, something you can take a, a daring step. Travel, traveling alone seems to be in that- Yeah kind of high ranking of daring. Yeah. How can you go to a place you don't know? And yet we grew up doing things we don't know, going to places we don't know. It's just part of life. I mean- Yeah we left home, go to a university. Right. You don't know anyone there. Even if you know a friend or two- Yeah it's a whole new experience. New job, you marry someone, oh, you've only known time and you start a new life. I mean- Yeah women raise families, run communities, and then when you tell them, "Take a flight west," they freak. Yeah. I love what you're saying because you can tap back into the skills you've built over time, and there is a connection. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Yeah. Yeah. You have a lot of skills- Mm-hmm a lot of maturity, emotional intelligence- Yeah than you give yourself credit for. Yeah, so I think you thrive. Yeah. The first step is always going to be disproportionately difficult- Of course because everything is new. But once you take that step- Yeah you don't even have to go far. Start nearby. Yeah. Go to a different city, a different- Yeah region. And then- Sure as you build your confidence, you can go further. Um, yeah, be more adventurous, and with time then you'll see- Yeah that whether it works for you, and it's okay if you go solo- Yeah flying, okay, this I don't enjoy it. I don't want to do it again. That's fine. But go- Nice and then decide for yourself. You could be surprised, be able to make it. Yeah. And again, it also helps those who- I feel, like you said, we always have people around us. So I- Yeah can't really, I've never been this long time without- Mm-hmm friends, husband, without love. It also helps you learn that you don't need to wait on someone else, because you may not realize that travel as a priority may not be as high for them as it is for you. Love that. We can talk about it, it's interesting, it's exciting, let's do it, but your, where you're coming- Yeah may not be in the same level. Yeah. So you could be going on with realizing your more prioritized dreams- Yeah while I'm waiting on you. And so solo is another, and this is another reason to consider solo travel. Yeah. That it's a personal passion- Yes or interest, and not everybody at the same time, even your best friend or your spouse or your partner. Yeah. And the best thing ever is that more and more women are taking it up. Mm. So you'll be surprised how many women you meet- Mm-hmm as solo travelers out there doing exactly the same, taking their first step, their next step. And yeah, it's a whole community now nowadays. It's really surprising how much it has- Love that yeah, really increased. So there are many women out there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Keeping company. Yeah. And that's amazing. And it all, what I'm hearing consistently in your conver- in this conversation is that doing this for you, by you, because of you is the reason why it's going to work. Whether it's a reflection and that didn't pan out- Yes the way my vision thought, cool. Yes. What did you learn about yourself through all of it? Wonderful. Right? At the end. Absolutely. You might learn travel far away is not your gig. Yes. Cool. You might learn that you do want to be connected. Maybe you are very curious about languages and different places- Uh-huh of that. Yeah. Like, take some time and play with it before you make- Yes decisions. And like you shared, Maria, start small. You don't have to go on a plane. You can get in- Yes your car and go to the next region, or go to the next province in Canada, right? Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Why not, right? Yeah. Yeah. If it's on your mind, there's a reason. Just- Yeah take the step. Exactly. Love that. It's for you. If it's on your mind, there's a reason. Love that. Wanna talk about one more thing, and that's international travel. I just tapped into it a little bit there, but- What would you say is the biggest misconception that people have about international travel? That's the world is scary. They're waiting for you on the corner to kidnap you- Ah and I dunno, all those- Yep dramatic movie-style stories. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that it's for other people, that it's too expensive, it's, it's that it's not safe. One interesting thing, let me just interject here. Sure. One thing I discovered, because there's a lot of interesting things you get when you travel alone, just random thoughts. Yeah. And I realized that everybody around me is working. Everybody is working around me. I'm the one who's taking time off, which is a huge gift. Right. Yeah. And the reason I'm using that example, from the air hostess who checks you in, the taxi driver- Mm-hmm the hotel, all those people want you to have a good time, want you to be safe. Yeah. Not personally, but the system is working for you. For you. It's working for you to increase the likelihood that you will actually enjoy the experience, and come back, or be fulfilled, or refer others, or have good stories to tell at the very least of the experiences you had out there. Mm-hmm. So it really is working, the system is working for you, and it is for you. Right. It's not for those others. Yeah. You dunno what, you, the outside doesn't define what a tourist looks like. It's the inside. It's your desire to- Mm your curiosity- Yeah your interest in visiting a certain place, or carrying out or experiencing a certain activity. Mm-hmm. Even going to the museum. These are innate. It's you- Mm-hmm and there are many others like you. It's a natural desire. And so when you respond to it, you find that really the world of tourism, there's a reason it's thriving. It is for you. Enjoy yourself. Okay. It really is for you. Mm-hmm. And so understandably, if you've not done it before, you have your anxieties. Sure. Where do you start? But there are people to help you. There are a lot of people. People are friendly and really supportive, so long as you are Yeah, you're The, the issue is, the concern is always are you who you say you are? Are you here to do what you said you wanted to do? Don't be disruptive. Be respectful- Of course of local customs. Yes. People are busy working. People are busy going on with their livelihoods, including those who are serving you. You are the one in the position of real privilege in the sense that- Yes you can afford it, you have time to go, and you're gifting yourself. You have an interest. You're curious. You're even supporting them. Yes. They're supporting you and you're supporting them. You're creating livelihoods. Yeah. So it is, the misconception is the, i- it's unsafe, and we are not trying to go to Iraq for tourism, for example. Sure. Or Iran at this time, right? You're going- Yeah to places that are at peace. They're, they, there's, they're going about their lives. Yeah. So it's, there's even these days there is a tourism police. I realize there is a, a, a department in many countries now that, where they assign security. Yeah. Just so that not, uh, the dramatic against thugs and stuff- Mm just normal, common concerns you may have. Yeah. There are people also to serve you. So it's safer than you imagine. It's less expensive than you imagine. Listen- It doesn't have to be expensive, but it's going to cost. Yeah. You can afford it because everybody who earns spends their excess or their extra on something. Yeah. Yeah. When you prioritize travel, you will see that you can afford it. Nice. Yeah. You decide what's important for you. Mm-hmm. It's another upgrade. In fact, for women, just look in your wardrobe- Yeah and you will know where all the- Yes excess is going. So you can afford it. It is safer than you imagine, and it's not for other people, it is for you. Yeah. You deserve it. Give yourself permission. Love that. And it is possible. International travel is possible regardless of your passport. I have a Kenyan passport. Yeah. It's not a diplomatic passport, and on that passport I have traveled to 100 countries. Yeah. It is possible. Mm. Every country you dream of is within reach. Mm. So if you've never done it before, or- Yeah visit someone. Now we have friends all over the place. Yes. Your friends, their family, people who wanna say, "Come. Come." Start that. That's a soft entry. Sure. A friendly face. They don't even have to host you. You just- Yeah. Yeah meet at a certain location, and you know someone. If that's the fear of, "Oh, I don't know anyone, and who will I ask, and what will..." Okay. Start- Yeah with someone you know. Right. Go in that direction. Right. They don't have to host you, but they can meet you- Sure or they can guide you what to do, what not to do. And once you take that first step- Yeah and go, you will build so much confidence in yourself- Yeah that you can keep going. You will also discover whether you enjoy it or not. I need to remind you- Yes of that. Yeah. Of course. You need, yes. You will learn about yourself a lot more than you'll even learn about wherever you are going. Yeah. And that's enough to give you the confidence to go forth- Yeah and travel more. Love that. Such wisdom, my dear. Such depth of wisdom. People think, "Oh, I'm just gonna travel," and they say it, but so many pieces. And to have this conversation in Thrive After 45 brings my heart so much joy, because I've learned so many new ways of reframing my thinking around travel, as it were. You've given so many pieces of gold nuggets. In the show notes, we will show and share how to connect- Mm-hmm with Maria so that you can- access her wisdom, her guidance, her expertise along the way. I know she'd be a wonderful coach. I haven't coached with her, but who knows what the future will bring for Denise. We don't know. But honestly, nuggets and seeds that you've planted have been incredible today, and I thank you so much- Thank you for sharing your wisdom and expertise, and making a difference in the world, showing women, because our show is speaking to women, but I know you work- Mm-hmm with families and individuals. So please make sure you reach out to Maria. Go and check out all of her amazing stuff, 'cause she is a wealth of knowledge and experience. So thank you- Thank you again for being here with us, Maria. Thank you. Thank you, Denise, for having me- and speaking to everyone. It was so nice chatting. And yes, as she has said, feel free, reach out, and check in. Yeah. Yeah. Let's chat. The best thing is- Yeah chatting with someone- Right appreciates the travel, so- Yeah even if it's just for a chat, let's do it. I love it. I love it. And if this episode has resonated at all with you, please share, comment, give us a review so that we can make it into other midlife women's lives, and show that we are never alone- Agreed at home and abroad. Before we wrap up today, I have to share with you, Ignite the Inner Uprising is being built around four thresholds in every women, where we cross o- back and forth, coming back into ourselves, our body, our voice, our wiring, and our stories. It's not a retreat where we're gonna disappear and just shut the world off, and it's not a conference where talking heads come at you and you get more information and overwhelmed. It is not either of those. It is a room of women coming together, being guided by our torchbearers, and facilitated into stepping back into and remembering who you are as a woman, before all the identities became a reality for you. It's the ability to gift yourself, coming home, and keeping that fire alive inside of you. It's not about reinvention, it's about a return, because when one woman turns a light on, the rest of the room catches fire. Thank you for helping us, Maria, thrive after 45. Have a wonderful day, everyone. Bye-bye.