How to Stop Shaming Yourself & Reclaim Your Power - with Emma Lyons

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Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Thrive After 45.

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I'm Denise Drinkwater, heart whisperer, midlife mirror and mentor.

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And every week I am honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving.

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Beyond 45.

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Together we'll uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion.

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What if the patterns you've spent your life surviving are the same ones?

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Quietly shaping your business, your money, and your visibility today.

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It is such an honor and a privilege to introduce and welcome, Emma Lyons, an Inner Power Guide.

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With over 15 years of deep, energetic, somatic, and subconscious healing work.

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After burning out in human rights law, she dismantled her own trauma patterns, rebuilt from the ground up, and has since guided over 1000 people through trauma release, nervous system repair, money block clearing, and reclaiming true sovereignty.

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Emma helps heart led entrepreneurs stop self-sabotaging, dissolve.

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Shame.

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Clear inherited trauma and build businesses that honor their nervous systems rather than overwhelm them.

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Today we're gonna explore what it truly means to return to your real power and break the cycles you never chose.

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Welcome to our show today, Emmett's.

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So great to have you here.

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Thank you so much for having me, Denise.

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I appreciate the introduction.

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My goodness.

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Nervous system repair.

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Ah, I think as a society, our nervous systems are.

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Shot and we don't even realize it.

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Yeah, help.

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Help us to understand what that actually can come out looking like so people can actually start to understand when we say nervous system, what is it we're talking about and how can we recognize.

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It's basically your body.

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So the mindset work, it works on the mind, but all of the, all of the information, all the fears, it's stored in the nervous system, the body.

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This is like the.

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The animal part of us that's like, that just automatically goes into trauma mode.

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That goes into fear.

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We're not consciously able to control it.

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Most of the time the body just gets scared or tenses up.

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And so many of what people call, um, or people consider to be like personality traits.

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I'm shy.

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I'm Oh yes.

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You know, confront, a lot of these things are in rather than being personality.

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Types are actually res trauma responses that people have adapted to.

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And now people just think, this is who I am.

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I'm shy, I am afraid to put myself forward.

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This is part of my personality.

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But no, it's because your nervous system is carrying all of that trauma from your childhood and it's kind of, it's holding you back so often the, the mindset blocks that people talk about.

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It's only, it's, it's not even half the bucket.

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Mm.

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It's because most of the trauma, the fear, the extreme fear of visibility that so many people, women have particularly, but people in general, women particularly, right.

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We're afraid of showing up.

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It's because we have this legacy of kind of being attacked maybe in our childhood or not being allowed to speak up.

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And also because women, we collectively have been kind of scapegoated.

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By society.

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So we're carrying the trauma of that.

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And that's often not consciously or what we're not aware of, but the body is holding it nonetheless.

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And this is where we've got to start to really, to really open ourselves up to receiving.

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'cause when the nervous system is tense, we can't receive, we're in survival mode.

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Even if we don't, even if we don't know it in our head, we feel like we're fine.

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Right.

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Where the body is in survival mode, the body is holding all that tension.

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And the way to real freedom is to open up that nervous system and to teach your nervous system that it's safe to open, that it's safe to receive, that it's safe to relax, that the world is a safe place.

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And that's pretty hard when we've been trained for 30, 40, 50 years.

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You know, we're gonna be, something terrible is gonna happen.

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We've got tense for the worst, you know, so our nervous system is holding onto all of that, even if psychologically we know better.

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And this is where, this is where so much of this work, uh, really needs to start.

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So what's, what, what does that look like?

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I mean, other than our body do we like, and our mind, our mind has such power, but we're missing what you're saying is we're missing so much because the rest of it Yeah.

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Is being held in our bodies.

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So what do we do to start moving forward?

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Well, I, I do somatic work with people, so working with opening up the body, working with breath, working with sound, working with movement of the body.

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Okay?

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Because, uh, we're not, we're not just ahead.

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We're a whole system, and this is where we start.

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You could, your brain can know things, and I've done this.

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We can be in, it's a way of avoiding, it's a trauma response as well.

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When we so get into, I know this and I know better and I've studied all about it.

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I know all the psycho psychology of why I'm like this, but yet our bodies are still stuck in that pattern and.

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Sometimes we can use that psychology stuff to kind of keep ourselves stuck.

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We wanna be in, feel like we're in control.

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And this is one powerful way to keep that sense of control of holding on for dear life.

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And, you know, the work that I do is all about opening that up and working with, I work a lot with the inner critic is what, what it's generally known as.

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And what I've realized is that this, this so-called inner critic.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's, uh.

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It's kind of a, it ticks all the box of the narcissist, but the call is coming from inside the house, and yet we're taught to take this thing to therapy, to send love to it and treat it like a wounded child.

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Yeah.

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And we've realized that's not the way, that's not the way to deal with this shaming thing.

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It's like a parasite.

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It's sucking us dry.

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And it does, if you look, go through the, the DSM, um, definition of the, of the, of a narcissist that the inner critic of so many of us, it fits that bill.

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It's grandiose, self-important.

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It knows best.

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It's got all these fantasies.

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It's special, it's high and myy.

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It's in titles.

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The only one that it doesn't tick is that it's interpersonally exploitative, because who it exploits is you right?

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Stands to its tune and that is what's we're, when we're stuck in shame, the nervous system is basically held hostage.

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And that's what this so-called inner critic.

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I call it the inner narcissist.

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That's what it does.

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It has us under house arrest and so many people don't even realize that we're there because we've all been taught since childhood.

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Shame is good for you, that you need to feel shame in order to be a good person.

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And we're carrying all that, and that means that we just kind of remain, no matter what we do.

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We're still stuck in this kind of trauma response, in this kind of shame loop that keeps us small, that keeps us from expanding into our power and reclaiming our space and really receiving what we're here to receive in this lifetime.

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Amazing.

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So when you're talking about shame.

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My brain goes to, well, I, I know what shame is.

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Do I really know what shame is?

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I'm starting to get curious.

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What do you see shame as being?

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Well, shame is that thought that it's often defined as the belief that I'm bad.

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Something wrong with me.

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Yep.

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But if we look at shame, really shame is actually, it's a, it's a, it's a lethal cocktail.

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A bunch of, bunch of self attacks, self-loathing, anger turned inwards, resentment, fear, you know, all this bunch of emotions that are basically turned against the self.

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And then from down there.

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From downstream.

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From that, you've got all these beliefs that I'm wrong, that I'm ugly, that I'm too fat, that I'm too thin, that I've got too many wrinkles, that I've got a big ass, that I've got a big nose, you know, whatever.

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Whatever those things that people say, this is the shaming voice that that really rules our life, and that tells you.

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So many women are gonna relate to this because so many women are stuck in that, you know, imposter syndrome.

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Yeah, a lot of that's pretty much everyone has that.

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And if we trace that back to, you could see that shame.

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That's shame with better pr, you know?

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But nobody wants to talk about shame because shame is a dirty four letter word.

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You know, nobody wants to, nobody wants to talk about, it's something that we should keep on the side, right?

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We're shamed of our shame.

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We don't wanna own it.

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And uh, that means we avoid the issue when we pretend it's not there and we press it.

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And, uh, I'm, my whole message is really about breaking free from this shame voice, because this shame voice is kind of an implant from culture.

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I could talk about that.

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Women have a double dose because, you know, we, we collectively as women have been scapegoated by society, you know, for, for all the sexual things, right?

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And dirty bits that nobody wants to talk about.

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It's all been dumped on women.

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So we're carrying all that and.

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So much of that is shame.

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And this shame is also when I started looking into this, I started to realize that, you know, trauma, when it passes down intergenerationally, we need the shame in order for it to stick.

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Like if you look at an animal that you know, wild animal, they don't, they might experience a trauma, but then they go and have a good shake after they've been hunted by the lion.

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They have a good shake, they shake it out.

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They're not still thinking about that 20 years later.

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So what's the difference with us humans?

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It's shame.

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Shame is the glue that keeps that inter intergenerational trauma going.

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When you take shame out of the equation.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's really, shame is like the granddaddy of, you know, it's such ati, it's not normal emotion.

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It's like the granddaddy, the worst possible thing.

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'cause it's the only so-called emotion I don't think.

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It's not even normal emotion.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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It's really.

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Personal attack on the self.

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Mm-hmm.

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And we're, we're gast every single day and told that shame is good for you.

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Even in the English language particularly, you have no shame, Denise.

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You have no shame.

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You don't have enough shame.

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Mm-hmm.

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So you're not a good person, you're not a good girl, or you have no shame.

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You, you know, it's, it's an insult that we're throwing around there and what I've realized in my work, mm-hmm.

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Shame is a, is a cultural implant.

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That's really always every 100% of the time it's about control.

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You know, if there's a child who here is making, and I want him to shut up mm-hmm.

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I shame him very quickly.

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He gets quiet, you know, and I get to feel, oh, so important.

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I'm so big.

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Look what I've done.

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It's a, it's a narcissistic hit.

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We, we, we do that because we're carrying so much shame, right?

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And we wanna get rid of it.

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So how do we get rid of it?

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The, a lot of women do this, we do this to other women.

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Mm-hmm.

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We're feeling the shame.

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We don't, it's a bit uncomfortable, so we shame that woman over there.

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Right.

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Look at her big ass, look at her wrinkles, and then suddenly we feel like, oh.

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I'm so powerful.

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Hmm.

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Look what I did to that person.

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And it relieves us temporarily.

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I was gonna say, does it?

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Yeah, it does not, it's not effective, but it gives us that, that like little ooh, but it's a narcissistic hit is what it is.

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Right.

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Because it makes us feel powerful.

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And when we do that to ourselves or other people, we are playing that shame game.

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We are passing it on, we are ensuring that it keeps going.

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Mm-hmm.

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What I've realized is that we can cut off that shame brain by shame game by working with our own inner critic, the old, the inner narcissist, right?

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Um, because the only, we only experience shame.

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Like if you tell me that I've got, or if I say to you, Denise, that you've got mm-hmm.

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That I hate your purple hair, you're gonna just think I'm a crazy woman.

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You know?

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Mm-hmm.

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You are only going to feel shame if, if you have that inner narcissist voice that says you do, or big ass or whatever.

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Whatever the shaming words are, you have to, that inner narcissist has to agree in order for you to experience shame.

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Otherwise, you're just gonna think.

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That person is crazy and see it for what it is.

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Right?

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And shame is always a projection.

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It's always a projection, okay?

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'cause we're projecting something that's uncomfortable.

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I feel something uncomfortable.

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I wanna put it on you so I don't have to feel it.

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Right?

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And that's the sneaky way that shame keeps being passed down from generation to generation.

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But we absolutely have the power to break the cycle.

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Which, which is so important, which is my next question.

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We have the power to break that cycle, not only for years to come, but for ourselves, right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So when we do that shame game, and I mean, I think of.

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You know, you, we all can think of times in our lives where women have shamed others and made themselves feel great as a result because you take it off yourself and push it to something else.

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Yeah.

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When that happens, are you actually growing it inside yourself at the same time?

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I, I, I think you're right.

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I think you are because you're, you're shaming them.

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You're putting that shame on them.

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You're creating more to be ashamed of, right?

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So it doesn't dissipate the shame.

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Yeah.

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Actually in a sense, like the empathy is down there underneath it.

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Okay.

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And this is a why, this is why I have such a big problem with the way it's shame is presented as this moral compass.

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Mm-hmm.

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And even therapists or everyone, you know, they talk about, I even had someone reach out to me on Substack recently.

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Mm-hmm.

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And they said their therapists have told them that it's good that you experience shame because you've done lots of bad things.

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So shame in our society has seen as, as long as you've, if you've done something bad.

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It's kind of like a get out of jail free card.

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If you feel shame about it, then that means you're still a good person, so everything's okay.

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So it's kind of a kind of a, yeah, it's a, it's a sneaky one interesting one.

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Mm-hmm.

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Isn't it?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But the thing is shame is a really, really bad way to change someone's behavior in the media.

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Sure.

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Sure.

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Like, if I shame this child, this child is talking, I shame him.

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He shuts up for now, but, uh, he's not gonna realize why.

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He's just gonna feel bad and pass that on.

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I was on a podcast a, a, a few weeks ago.

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Yeah.

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And this woman was talking to me, she said something really good about her aunt.

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Who was, when they were children, they were out eating ice cream.

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Mm-hmm.

00:15:33.818 --> 00:15:37.958
And this adult came up, came up to them and said, you shouldn't be eating ice cream.

00:15:38.048 --> 00:15:38.979
They'll make you fat.

00:15:39.219 --> 00:15:41.528
And these girls were a little bit pudgy, but you know what they did?

00:15:41.528 --> 00:15:43.058
They could have felt so shame there.

00:15:43.089 --> 00:15:44.168
'cause that's what he was trying to do.

00:15:44.168 --> 00:15:45.308
He was projecting his.

00:15:45.874 --> 00:15:48.453
His own beliefs and fears onto them.

00:15:48.844 --> 00:15:52.173
These girls, they could have dropped their ice cream run away.

00:15:52.354 --> 00:15:52.474
Mm-hmm.

00:15:53.014 --> 00:15:56.014
So many things that could have happened to shame themselves for the rest of their lives.

00:15:56.313 --> 00:15:56.403
Yeah.

00:15:56.403 --> 00:15:57.484
But you know what they did?

00:15:57.484 --> 00:16:01.323
They laughed in his face and continued to eat their ice cream.

00:16:01.504 --> 00:16:01.653
Mm-hmm.

00:16:01.894 --> 00:16:04.594
And this is the power of breaking free of shame.

00:16:04.744 --> 00:16:09.724
Nobody can shame you unless you have that inner narcissist activated that agrees with you.

00:16:09.724 --> 00:16:10.563
And this is the power.

00:16:10.563 --> 00:16:11.254
This is what I do.

00:16:11.254 --> 00:16:14.288
I help people to break up with that narcissistic shame voice.

00:16:14.629 --> 00:16:14.688
Yeah.

00:16:15.109 --> 00:16:17.778
And this is really different from what everyone else is saying.

00:16:18.048 --> 00:16:18.198
Yeah.

00:16:18.198 --> 00:16:21.619
Everyone else out there, they're talking about getting comfortable with shame.

00:16:21.859 --> 00:16:25.038
Even people like Brene Brown, who I really love and respect.

00:16:25.158 --> 00:16:25.339
Mm-hmm.

00:16:25.578 --> 00:16:30.349
Um, she, all of these people are talking from inside the ca the shame cage.

00:16:30.379 --> 00:16:30.469
Mm-hmm.

00:16:30.708 --> 00:16:34.729
They're talking from, from inside a culture where shame is normalized.

00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:44.629
And shame is just part of what it is to be human, and we just have to cope with it and get on with our lives and accept that shame is good, is part of what it is to be human.

00:16:44.629 --> 00:16:57.139
I, I've really come to see that it's not that shame, you know, if you look at the story of Adam and Eve, you know, you can see that as an allegory of shame, but shame does not have any positive attributes.

00:16:57.198 --> 00:16:58.278
If we look at anger.

00:16:58.894 --> 00:17:02.043
Somebody's crossed my boundary, I get angry.

00:17:02.254 --> 00:17:02.464
Sure.

00:17:02.464 --> 00:17:04.923
That's a good thing I need to tell you to stop.

00:17:05.433 --> 00:17:05.493
Yeah.

00:17:05.493 --> 00:17:06.753
And, and don't come any further.

00:17:06.753 --> 00:17:07.773
This is a powerful thing.

00:17:08.074 --> 00:17:10.054
Sometimes anger can get outta control.

00:17:10.324 --> 00:17:10.834
Yes.

00:17:10.953 --> 00:17:11.074
Mm-hmm.

00:17:11.554 --> 00:17:12.483
But we need anger.

00:17:12.634 --> 00:17:13.564
We need anger.

00:17:13.953 --> 00:17:20.104
Um, you know, and so other emo all the other emotions, there's a point, there's a function to them.

00:17:20.104 --> 00:17:20.193
Right.

00:17:20.463 --> 00:17:21.999
But when we come to shame.

00:17:23.673 --> 00:17:24.183
There's nothing.

00:17:24.183 --> 00:17:24.273
Right.

00:17:24.693 --> 00:17:26.973
Shame does not help anyone.

00:17:27.183 --> 00:17:30.604
Shame is a tool of control domination.

00:17:30.723 --> 00:17:33.874
It's always a manipulation every single time.

00:17:33.903 --> 00:17:33.993
Mm-hmm.

00:17:34.233 --> 00:17:36.588
When I shame someone, if I shame you now.

00:17:36.588 --> 00:17:36.868
Mm-hmm.

00:17:37.009 --> 00:17:37.429
Mm-hmm.

00:17:37.689 --> 00:17:41.989
Um, you know, like we talked about, I'm just passing on my own shame, so Right.

00:17:43.294 --> 00:17:47.193
It's a, and it's a manipulation every single time because I'm trying to.

00:17:47.679 --> 00:17:51.848
Gaslight you into thinking that it's you rather than me that wants something, you know?

00:17:51.903 --> 00:17:52.568
Right, right.

00:17:52.659 --> 00:17:52.719
Yeah.

00:17:52.719 --> 00:17:59.108
So it's very, very manipulative and it's so, so normalized, absolutely everywhere.

00:17:59.114 --> 00:17:59.183
Mm-hmm.

00:17:59.263 --> 00:18:01.223
Not just amongst women everywhere, of course.

00:18:02.044 --> 00:18:03.243
Men as well.

00:18:03.243 --> 00:18:04.834
I mean, look at the hustle culture.

00:18:05.163 --> 00:18:05.253
Mm-hmm.

00:18:05.493 --> 00:18:06.814
And women are part of that as well.

00:18:06.814 --> 00:18:08.044
This is very shaming, right?

00:18:08.463 --> 00:18:08.584
Yeah.

00:18:08.584 --> 00:18:13.114
We're taught that if you just shame yourself enough, then you'll pull up your socks and get better.

00:18:13.118 --> 00:18:14.614
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:14.943 --> 00:18:16.023
What's wrong with me?

00:18:16.084 --> 00:18:16.443
Yeah.

00:18:16.443 --> 00:18:17.193
Yeah.

00:18:17.193 --> 00:18:23.044
And we're, we're, we believe that this is why people have been shaming themselves for 40, 50, 60 years.

00:18:23.433 --> 00:18:24.544
Look, don't believe me.

00:18:24.544 --> 00:18:25.743
See where it's got you.

00:18:25.743 --> 00:18:26.223
Mm-hmm.

00:18:26.644 --> 00:18:26.913
Yeah.

00:18:26.913 --> 00:18:27.663
How has that helped?

00:18:28.023 --> 00:18:28.114
Yeah.

00:18:28.114 --> 00:18:29.314
How's that working for you?

00:18:29.314 --> 00:18:29.763
That shame?

00:18:29.798 --> 00:18:30.814
Right, right.

00:18:30.814 --> 00:18:31.594
Let me tell you.

00:18:32.163 --> 00:18:39.124
If you're trying to manifest something big in your life, shame is gonna anchor you and make sure you don't get that.

00:18:39.304 --> 00:18:43.534
It's, it is really massive reason why people don't manifest what they want.

00:18:43.534 --> 00:18:48.693
'cause they're carrying all this shame may, so a lot of the times it's unconscious shame that they're not even aware.

00:18:49.653 --> 00:18:49.864
Yeah.

00:18:49.864 --> 00:18:49.953
Shame.

00:18:50.558 --> 00:18:53.138
Shame is also the root of narcissism, you know?

00:18:53.144 --> 00:18:53.253
Mm-hmm.

00:18:53.334 --> 00:18:53.493
Mm-hmm.

00:18:53.614 --> 00:18:56.769
This is why narcissists, you know, look at Donald Trump or whatever, you know?

00:18:56.798 --> 00:18:56.888
Mm-hmm.

00:18:57.159 --> 00:19:05.919
If, if he was really, if he really was a psychopath and didn't care about other people, he gets, he gets angry when people make jokes about him because it triggers his shame.

00:19:06.098 --> 00:19:06.189
Mm-hmm.

00:19:06.189 --> 00:19:07.598
That's repressed down there.

00:19:08.048 --> 00:19:10.509
So he, he does, he does.

00:19:11.078 --> 00:19:14.199
He, he has a bunch of repressed shame, and that's what narcissism is.

00:19:14.199 --> 00:19:15.578
Narcissism is repressed.

00:19:15.578 --> 00:19:19.328
Shame gone, taken over, you know, and.

00:19:19.834 --> 00:19:21.933
People like Brene Brown, for example.

00:19:21.933 --> 00:19:27.723
She says that if you don't experience shame, that would make you a narcissist or that would make you a psychopath rather.

00:19:28.054 --> 00:19:28.173
Mm-hmm.

00:19:28.413 --> 00:19:33.844
But if we look at psychopaths carefully, not having shame is not the problem.

00:19:33.903 --> 00:19:37.564
The real problem is that they don't have empathy, that's the problem.

00:19:37.894 --> 00:19:41.074
And psychopaths don't experience empathy.

00:19:41.074 --> 00:19:42.423
So they can't experience shame.

00:19:43.009 --> 00:19:44.598
Narcissists are a different story.

00:19:44.598 --> 00:19:54.318
The the rest of us, um, the, the, the funny thing is when you look at the facts and the reality of how shame works with the body and the nervous system mm-hmm.

00:19:54.564 --> 00:19:54.923
Mm-hmm.

00:19:55.009 --> 00:19:59.719
When we experience shame, it actually shuts down our ability to empathize.

00:20:00.078 --> 00:20:02.898
So it, it kills our ability to empathize.

00:20:02.929 --> 00:20:04.098
Even with ourselves.

00:20:04.098 --> 00:20:06.828
We are like, go in for the kill and punch ourselves.

00:20:06.834 --> 00:20:06.884
Okay.

00:20:06.884 --> 00:20:08.028
We gotta, okay.

00:20:08.118 --> 00:20:09.739
And that's what shame does.

00:20:09.989 --> 00:20:17.368
It makes we lose, it kills our empathy and that's, that's, we don't need more shame, we need more empathy.

00:20:17.368 --> 00:20:17.909
Thank you very much.

00:20:17.909 --> 00:20:19.499
Right, right, right.

00:20:19.558 --> 00:20:20.608
That's the real problem.

00:20:20.878 --> 00:20:21.449
Okay.

00:20:21.568 --> 00:20:22.229
Okay.

00:20:22.648 --> 00:20:38.729
So when we know of, um, people who are doing all kinds of incredible things but are still feeling stuck after doing all the mindset work.

00:20:39.858 --> 00:20:41.898
What's really at the root cause?

00:20:41.929 --> 00:20:48.439
Is it the fact that everything, the subconscious and it's stuck in your body, like what's going on there from your perspective?

00:20:49.788 --> 00:20:50.929
Yeah, it's in your body.

00:20:50.929 --> 00:20:59.479
Your nervous system is tensing, and this is the thing, I mean, it's one, one of the reasons that like this is what visibility blocks are a shame.

00:20:59.479 --> 00:21:00.979
You know, people afraid to show up.

00:21:01.713 --> 00:21:11.193
And like even when you do show up, and I've experienced this personally along with my clients, even if you're doing all the things and showing up, shame says you're not okay.

00:21:11.403 --> 00:21:12.394
There's something wrong with you.

00:21:12.394 --> 00:21:13.144
You've gotta hide.

00:21:13.294 --> 00:21:18.364
So we're not showing up authentically when we're carrying shame and not pretty much.

00:21:18.663 --> 00:21:19.624
We all have shame.

00:21:19.624 --> 00:21:21.844
We've been taught shame, right?

00:21:21.844 --> 00:21:23.044
It's been intergenerational.

00:21:23.253 --> 00:21:26.193
Shame is a taught, it's not even a real option.

00:21:26.493 --> 00:21:26.554
Yeah.

00:21:26.554 --> 00:21:28.713
It's taught, it's a control mechanism.

00:21:28.713 --> 00:21:36.273
It's a construct that we as a society have taken on and we've been told that it's good for you and that you need shame in order to be good person.

00:21:36.273 --> 00:21:37.108
But as I said.

00:21:37.679 --> 00:21:39.509
Shame doesn't work to make people better.

00:21:39.509 --> 00:21:39.628
Right.

00:21:39.628 --> 00:21:41.128
Shame makes people worse.

00:21:41.278 --> 00:21:45.298
Shame makes, when you're carrying shame, you're, you're, you're telling yourself, I'm not good.

00:21:45.298 --> 00:21:46.078
I have to hide.

00:21:46.348 --> 00:21:48.419
It puts us into survival mode, right?

00:21:48.419 --> 00:21:52.888
So we feel like somebody says something, we wanna, yeah, we wanna hit them, we wanna kill them.

00:21:52.888 --> 00:21:57.179
We're feeling like, yeah, it's, it's hitting that survival part of us.

00:21:57.179 --> 00:21:58.469
So we feel threatened.

00:21:58.969 --> 00:22:02.989
It's not, that's not a place to start the changing behavior, right?

00:22:03.199 --> 00:22:03.679
Yeah.

00:22:03.679 --> 00:22:04.308
The long term.

00:22:04.578 --> 00:22:10.009
In the short term, it looks very impressive and this is why therapists, this is why coaches, everybody uses it.

00:22:10.009 --> 00:22:12.949
It's been so normalized, but it's so toxic.

00:22:13.128 --> 00:22:14.959
And when people experience the shame.

00:22:15.263 --> 00:22:19.013
They pass it on you, either it's not something that you can't digest.

00:22:19.074 --> 00:22:19.163
Right?

00:22:19.253 --> 00:22:22.433
And this is why, you know, people saying sit down and feel your shame.

00:22:22.433 --> 00:22:27.923
It can be very dangerous for lots of people because then people go into all those self attacking thoughts.

00:22:27.983 --> 00:22:28.074
Mm-hmm.

00:22:28.314 --> 00:22:29.693
And where does shame lead?

00:22:29.693 --> 00:22:30.384
At the bottom.

00:22:30.384 --> 00:22:30.983
At the bottom.

00:22:30.983 --> 00:22:33.713
Like, it's not like, it's not like sadness.

00:22:33.713 --> 00:22:37.554
You experience sadness and then you experience anger, you experience something else.

00:22:37.703 --> 00:22:38.963
Shame isn't like that.

00:22:39.203 --> 00:22:41.973
You, you sit down with your shame and what's underneath it.

00:22:42.528 --> 00:22:43.338
More shame.

00:22:43.338 --> 00:22:43.459
Mm-hmm.

00:22:43.699 --> 00:22:44.538
What's underneath that?

00:22:44.719 --> 00:22:45.169
More shame.

00:22:45.169 --> 00:22:50.868
It's a bottomless pit of shame that eventually comes to place where it says you might as well not be alive.

00:22:51.409 --> 00:22:51.439
Mm.

00:22:51.439 --> 00:22:54.888
And you know, shame has done that to me, it's made me feel that way.

00:22:55.249 --> 00:23:00.888
And I don't believe that people would ever, you know, take that final act if shame were not involved.

00:23:00.888 --> 00:23:01.189
Mm-hmm.

00:23:01.578 --> 00:23:06.739
We need to have shame in order to feel, there's no matter how bad things get in your life, shame needs to be there.

00:23:07.023 --> 00:23:08.314
To say there's no point.

00:23:08.314 --> 00:23:11.824
You're, you're a waste of oxygen, or whatever that voice says.

00:23:11.943 --> 00:23:12.094
Mm-hmm.

00:23:12.183 --> 00:23:14.614
And for us to actually take that, take that action.

00:23:14.638 --> 00:23:15.723
Right, right.

00:23:15.784 --> 00:23:28.294
We know shame is a, and shame is in so many, like up to genocide, like shame is essential part of the substrate there that gets passed on and, you know, not dealt with and reinforced.

00:23:28.294 --> 00:23:31.084
So shame is a really serious thing.

00:23:31.233 --> 00:23:31.564
Yeah.

00:23:31.568 --> 00:23:35.013
But, but we're, it's so normalized and we do it all the time.

00:23:35.013 --> 00:23:35.104
Right.

00:23:35.104 --> 00:23:36.034
We see it everywhere.

00:23:36.034 --> 00:23:41.523
People do it to their parents, teachers, teachers do it to their students, parents do it to their kids.

00:23:41.824 --> 00:23:41.913
Mm-hmm.

00:23:41.913 --> 00:23:44.104
It's, uh, it's happening constantly.

00:23:44.104 --> 00:23:45.903
It's so pervasive mm-hmm.

00:23:45.993 --> 00:23:49.473
That people, you know, people just see it as part of what it is to be human.

00:23:49.473 --> 00:23:50.403
And this is where, right.

00:23:50.673 --> 00:23:50.913
Yeah.

00:23:50.913 --> 00:23:54.898
Where I come in to tell people really, no, wait a minute.

00:23:55.409 --> 00:23:55.699
Yeah.

00:23:56.048 --> 00:23:56.499
Wait a minute.

00:23:57.604 --> 00:23:58.503
Reality check.

00:23:58.804 --> 00:24:00.604
You do not need shame.

00:24:01.023 --> 00:24:01.263
Yeah.

00:24:01.294 --> 00:24:02.973
Stop shaming yourself.

00:24:03.273 --> 00:24:03.453
Yeah.

00:24:03.453 --> 00:24:05.884
And it's like we're, we're, we're, we're hostage.

00:24:05.884 --> 00:24:09.364
It's like we have, um, you know, a Stockholm syndrome with shame.

00:24:09.364 --> 00:24:11.763
We're we as a society are addicted to it.

00:24:11.794 --> 00:24:12.993
We're shooting up on a shame.

00:24:12.993 --> 00:24:13.983
Right, right.

00:24:14.013 --> 00:24:15.933
Because we're thought, oh, I need shame.

00:24:15.933 --> 00:24:18.933
It's like we're, we're unconsciously stuck there.

00:24:19.173 --> 00:24:19.263
Right.

00:24:19.263 --> 00:24:22.413
Your body can get used to any kind of emotion.

00:24:23.163 --> 00:24:25.419
Shame is so pervasive with so many us.

00:24:25.419 --> 00:24:25.578
Right.

00:24:25.838 --> 00:24:27.844
And, and so hidden as well.

00:24:27.844 --> 00:24:29.463
You know the Exactly.

00:24:29.794 --> 00:24:30.064
Look at it.

00:24:30.663 --> 00:24:31.203
Yeah.

00:24:31.743 --> 00:24:33.273
So the shame is huge.

00:24:33.273 --> 00:24:33.334
Yeah.

00:24:33.394 --> 00:24:35.703
Shame is what's keeping women down in the world.

00:24:35.733 --> 00:24:35.854
Yeah.

00:24:35.888 --> 00:24:36.179
Yeah.

00:24:36.183 --> 00:24:43.023
And uh, this is why I work with a lot of women who are really ready to rise and move beyond their shame and move into that next level.

00:24:43.023 --> 00:24:46.084
Because like I said, shame is the opposite of authenticity.

00:24:46.324 --> 00:24:49.864
When you're carrying shame, you, shame tells you, you are not good enough as who you are.

00:24:50.223 --> 00:24:51.183
You have to hide.

00:24:51.394 --> 00:24:51.814
You have to.

00:24:51.814 --> 00:24:54.094
And physiologically, this is what shame does to you.

00:24:54.094 --> 00:24:54.874
It makes you hide.

00:24:54.874 --> 00:24:56.278
Right, right.

00:24:57.124 --> 00:24:57.663
Pull in.

00:24:57.723 --> 00:24:58.203
Yeah.

00:24:58.413 --> 00:25:02.463
I need to go into my survival space'cause I'm being attacked right now.

00:25:02.884 --> 00:25:03.064
Right.

00:25:03.064 --> 00:25:06.394
That's not, that's not where you wanna start making real changes.

00:25:06.989 --> 00:25:09.148
That's, that's the wrong place to start.

00:25:09.148 --> 00:25:12.778
We need to start by separating the behavior from the person.

00:25:13.048 --> 00:25:16.169
And this is how we, we, we make long-term changes.

00:25:16.169 --> 00:25:18.659
We don't blame the person and do ad ho attacks.

00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:20.788
We, we talk about the behavior.

00:25:21.028 --> 00:25:21.148
Mm-hmm.

00:25:21.388 --> 00:25:25.138
And how people expand and become more comfortable with who they are.

00:25:25.318 --> 00:25:25.528
Right.

00:25:25.528 --> 00:25:31.108
So that you can really show up in all your power and people can feel that we've gotta reclaim our shameless.

00:25:31.443 --> 00:25:32.794
This word shameless.

00:25:32.794 --> 00:25:37.084
It's an insult, you know, in our society, but we, I wanna reclaim that word.

00:25:37.114 --> 00:25:37.203
Mm-hmm.

00:25:37.443 --> 00:25:42.094
Because every single other word in the English language that ends in LES is homeless, hopeless.

00:25:42.364 --> 00:25:44.433
You know, it means you don't have any of that thing.

00:25:44.703 --> 00:25:47.763
But usually when we call someone shameless, it's an insult.

00:25:47.943 --> 00:25:51.003
And often those people are acting out of repressed shame.

00:25:51.003 --> 00:25:52.179
If you think of someone who's on mm-hmm.

00:25:52.358 --> 00:25:53.979
You know, alcohol or something.

00:25:53.999 --> 00:25:54.419
Mm-hmm.

00:25:54.509 --> 00:25:56.298
Shame kind, the alcohol kind.

00:25:56.298 --> 00:25:57.453
This is why we drink.

00:25:58.294 --> 00:26:02.463
For, and that's why alcohol shame is essential component for addictions as well.

00:26:02.463 --> 00:26:07.804
Because you know, when you drink, puts the mute button on shame for a few hours.

00:26:07.808 --> 00:26:07.818
Right?

00:26:08.104 --> 00:26:08.223
Right.

00:26:08.223 --> 00:26:14.884
And then the cycle spins out, you know, so I've been on, I've been on podcasts about alcoholism, an addiction.

00:26:14.884 --> 00:26:14.894
Mm-hmm.

00:26:14.894 --> 00:26:17.689
And even bulimia and what's on, what do they all have in common?

00:26:18.648 --> 00:26:19.128
Shame.

00:26:19.134 --> 00:26:19.473
Shame.

00:26:19.473 --> 00:26:19.634
Yeah.

00:26:19.638 --> 00:26:22.429
Shame is really the driver of all of these things.

00:26:22.429 --> 00:26:26.479
'cause it's, you know, bulimia, anorexia, you want it, it's self-attack.

00:26:26.509 --> 00:26:27.919
Yes, of course.

00:26:27.919 --> 00:26:29.719
And this is, this is the definition of shame.

00:26:29.959 --> 00:26:30.169
Yeah.

00:26:30.169 --> 00:26:32.088
Alcoholism, all kinds of addictions.

00:26:32.088 --> 00:26:32.148
Yeah.

00:26:32.388 --> 00:26:36.648
It's trying to cover up that shame and, you know, but shame is there.

00:26:36.648 --> 00:26:39.318
Shame is the driver, and we can cut it off.

00:26:39.318 --> 00:26:45.798
We can take back our power by rejecting this shame that we've been fed for thousands of years as a society.

00:26:45.798 --> 00:26:45.888
Right.

00:26:45.888 --> 00:26:47.398
You know, we need to, we don't, we don't need it.

00:26:48.124 --> 00:26:56.179
The only person that benefits from shame is the people pulling the strings at the top, and that's not, you take back your power, take back your right, right.

00:26:56.614 --> 00:26:58.384
Integrity, become who you really are.

00:26:58.683 --> 00:26:59.763
Stop trying to hide.

00:26:59.763 --> 00:27:09.423
And when you stop hiding and become who you are, that start living shamelessly, people really feel that people can respond to it because it's so freaking rare.

00:27:10.163 --> 00:27:20.483
Well, I was, I was just gonna say, it's probably such a rarity that people are in awe and just want to come closer to those who live Shameless, right?

00:27:20.933 --> 00:27:21.263
Yeah.

00:27:21.743 --> 00:27:23.183
Shameless is authentic.

00:27:23.394 --> 00:27:24.443
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:24.443 --> 00:27:24.463
Love it.

00:27:24.463 --> 00:27:24.558
Shame.

00:27:24.743 --> 00:27:25.013
Love it.

00:27:25.013 --> 00:27:25.733
Shameless is authenticity.

00:27:27.034 --> 00:27:28.294
Reclaim, you're shameless.

00:27:28.294 --> 00:27:29.314
This is how you reclaim.

00:27:29.314 --> 00:27:30.604
Find out who you really are.

00:27:30.903 --> 00:27:32.824
'cause when you're carrying shame, you're hiding.

00:27:32.824 --> 00:27:33.814
You're like, of course good enough.

00:27:33.814 --> 00:27:34.983
Something's wrong with me.

00:27:34.983 --> 00:27:36.453
I've gotta hold up my barrier.

00:27:36.723 --> 00:27:40.233
And we don't even know who we are'cause we're too busy attacking ourselves all the time.

00:27:41.314 --> 00:27:41.433
Yeah.

00:27:41.433 --> 00:27:44.733
We won't know who we are'cause we're not coming through a full lens.

00:27:44.733 --> 00:27:45.483
That's clear.

00:27:45.544 --> 00:27:45.604
Yeah.

00:27:45.608 --> 00:27:56.284
It's, it's, it's got, you know, history piled up upon history and as a result, we can't see who we really are until we come to.

00:27:56.503 --> 00:28:04.483
You and get the support and the brilliance that the work that you do around everything that you do to support your clients.

00:28:05.233 --> 00:28:06.314
So good.

00:28:06.374 --> 00:28:09.344
Um, this conversation has been incredible.

00:28:09.344 --> 00:28:11.713
I'm sitting here going, yes, yes, I can.

00:28:11.953 --> 00:28:12.644
Hmm.

00:28:12.673 --> 00:28:13.513
This is good.

00:28:13.513 --> 00:28:14.473
I can see this.

00:28:14.473 --> 00:28:15.374
I can hear this.

00:28:15.374 --> 00:28:15.703
I can.

00:28:16.074 --> 00:28:16.854
Stand this.

00:28:17.213 --> 00:28:18.233
Isn't that interesting?

00:28:18.233 --> 00:28:29.243
I'm gonna take life through a new lens and look at where it is in my world that I am experiencing thinking about feeling shame.

00:28:30.739 --> 00:28:31.398
Exactly.

00:28:31.398 --> 00:28:32.868
And when are you shaming yourself?

00:28:32.868 --> 00:28:35.628
Even in little ways, drop something, I'm stupid.

00:28:35.989 --> 00:28:37.669
That's shaming guys for sure.

00:28:37.669 --> 00:28:40.759
That's shaming any kind of attack on the person.

00:28:40.999 --> 00:28:49.159
And watch you'll, if you go around like this homework, like go, go out tomorrow and have a look and see how often you see people shaming each other.

00:28:49.459 --> 00:28:52.219
Watch how you, how that voice inside your head.

00:28:52.219 --> 00:28:53.659
That narcissist shames you.

00:28:53.663 --> 00:28:53.834
Yeah.

00:28:54.054 --> 00:28:54.979
You pop something.

00:28:54.979 --> 00:28:57.048
Oh my god, you're so, I'm so stupid.

00:28:57.048 --> 00:28:57.058
Yeah.

00:28:57.263 --> 00:28:57.653
Yeah.

00:28:57.953 --> 00:28:59.094
That is shaming.

00:28:59.243 --> 00:29:05.784
And we, when we stop shaming ourselves, for most of us, when we stop shaming ourselves, we, we stop shaming other people.

00:29:05.784 --> 00:29:09.173
We, we only shame others to the degree that we shame ourselves.

00:29:09.324 --> 00:29:09.983
Love that.

00:29:10.044 --> 00:29:13.973
That's not, not true for, you know, narcissists and 70 psychopaths.

00:29:13.973 --> 00:29:14.753
Sure.

00:29:14.814 --> 00:29:19.554
But for most of us that are, you know, fairly sound of mind, that's the truism.

00:29:20.134 --> 00:29:20.763
Nice.

00:29:20.913 --> 00:29:21.874
Love that.

00:29:21.993 --> 00:29:22.804
Love that.

00:29:23.703 --> 00:29:26.523
Is there any, this has been golden.

00:29:26.824 --> 00:29:28.203
Absolutely incredible.

00:29:28.203 --> 00:29:29.854
Such a great conversation.

00:29:30.243 --> 00:29:32.463
And there's two things that I wanna say.

00:29:32.638 --> 00:29:32.858
One.

00:29:34.653 --> 00:29:37.594
Women listening thrive after 45.

00:29:37.804 --> 00:29:39.334
Yes, we can do this.

00:29:39.394 --> 00:29:47.884
Yes, there is availability to understand ourselves in a brand new way through a new shameless lens.

00:29:48.304 --> 00:29:48.394
Yes.

00:29:48.483 --> 00:29:49.788
And when we do that.

00:29:50.943 --> 00:29:55.894
When you do that for you, by you, because of you, everything around you will change.

00:29:55.923 --> 00:29:57.423
Just like Emma shared.

00:29:57.423 --> 00:30:09.574
You know when people who do this work and are shameless, the energy that exists as a result changes not only their world, but all those who are in contact with them.

00:30:09.574 --> 00:30:11.554
Near and far, absolutely.

00:30:11.554 --> 00:30:11.973
And right.

00:30:11.973 --> 00:30:16.804
So many things like people pleasing, so many things that women complain about are shame.

00:30:17.388 --> 00:30:17.598
Yeah.

00:30:17.838 --> 00:30:19.969
People pleasing, imposter syndrome, all that.

00:30:19.969 --> 00:30:22.278
You know how many people please other people.

00:30:22.278 --> 00:30:22.368
Mm-hmm.

00:30:22.699 --> 00:30:25.368
That's because you're not, you're not, you, you have all this shame.

00:30:25.368 --> 00:30:27.019
You're trying to impress someone else.

00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:29.659
Get rid of that narcissist.

00:30:29.659 --> 00:30:31.038
Break up with that narcissist.

00:30:31.038 --> 00:30:35.193
And I have, I have an, I have a, A system if you'd like to hear it, about how to, yes.

00:30:35.493 --> 00:30:35.554
Yeah.

00:30:35.824 --> 00:30:38.163
Break that shame attack when it strikes.

00:30:38.163 --> 00:30:38.223
Yeah.

00:30:38.463 --> 00:30:40.239
And it can, I mean, I've had shame attacks.

00:30:40.338 --> 00:30:40.759
Mm-hmm.

00:30:40.844 --> 00:30:41.374
Shame.

00:30:41.463 --> 00:30:46.743
When shame attack is much, it's much stronger than even a fear attack.

00:30:46.773 --> 00:30:50.163
'cause it's like you are like attacking you.

00:30:50.163 --> 00:30:52.923
That, that really going for you.

00:30:53.433 --> 00:30:54.949
Your body shuts down.

00:30:54.949 --> 00:30:57.784
You, you're, you go red, you feel the heat.

00:30:58.138 --> 00:31:02.038
Your body goes, you know, this is, this is what shame does to you.

00:31:02.038 --> 00:31:06.509
It makes you go inside your shell and also become more narcissistic.

00:31:06.509 --> 00:31:07.919
'cause you're just thinking about yourself.

00:31:07.919 --> 00:31:09.269
You're not thinking about anyone else.

00:31:09.269 --> 00:31:10.888
You just go inside yourself.

00:31:10.888 --> 00:31:12.509
So it's not good for anyone.

00:31:12.568 --> 00:31:13.348
It's not good for you.

00:31:13.409 --> 00:31:14.098
Nobody wins.

00:31:14.939 --> 00:31:14.999
Yeah.

00:31:15.074 --> 00:31:16.663
So lose lose.

00:31:16.963 --> 00:31:20.469
So the, the way, when, when shame strikes, this is what to do.

00:31:20.469 --> 00:31:20.628
Mm-hmm.

00:31:20.709 --> 00:31:21.308
It's called break.

00:31:21.868 --> 00:31:23.189
B-R-E-A-K.

00:31:23.409 --> 00:31:23.828
Mm-hmm.

00:31:23.913 --> 00:31:28.423
So the first one is, you know, recognize that voice that says you've got a you.

00:31:28.423 --> 00:31:30.523
I don't know that you're too old.

00:31:30.703 --> 00:31:30.943
Yeah.

00:31:30.943 --> 00:31:32.173
Recognize this isn't your voice.

00:31:32.838 --> 00:31:33.858
It's a spell.

00:31:33.949 --> 00:31:37.308
We're all collectively under this spell this trance state.

00:31:37.548 --> 00:31:39.558
So you catch it, you interrupt it.

00:31:39.798 --> 00:31:40.608
Don't overthink it.

00:31:40.608 --> 00:31:41.209
Just name it.

00:31:41.209 --> 00:31:44.538
This is the trance and really disrupts the loop instantly.

00:31:44.568 --> 00:31:44.598
Mm.

00:31:44.898 --> 00:31:47.689
And shame is a trance that we're collectively under.

00:31:48.259 --> 00:31:48.348
Mm-hmm.

00:31:48.588 --> 00:31:54.259
So you, we want to go onto the next one, which is our refuse to engage you.

00:31:54.259 --> 00:31:56.538
Don't I try to argue with the Trumps love.

00:31:56.719 --> 00:31:57.078
Do you?

00:31:57.078 --> 00:31:58.429
You don't argue with the Trumps.

00:31:59.344 --> 00:32:01.624
You don't argue with a narcissist either, right?

00:32:01.923 --> 00:32:03.213
That's what, that's why Dr.

00:32:03.213 --> 00:32:05.104
Ramini says, don't go deep.

00:32:05.374 --> 00:32:06.183
Don't defend.

00:32:06.574 --> 00:32:10.354
Don't engage, don't explain, and don't personalize.

00:32:10.503 --> 00:32:11.959
Just say, not today.

00:32:12.578 --> 00:32:12.808
Not today.

00:32:13.144 --> 00:32:13.473
You don't.

00:32:13.473 --> 00:32:14.943
You don't have to be polite to this thing.

00:32:14.943 --> 00:32:15.034
Mm-hmm.

00:32:15.273 --> 00:32:19.354
So many of us are out there trying to be polite to this voice when it's trying to kill you.

00:32:19.413 --> 00:32:19.653
You know?

00:32:19.653 --> 00:32:19.713
Yeah.

00:32:19.773 --> 00:32:24.398
When we're taught and told that this voice is trying to look after you, it's trying to keep you safe.

00:32:24.909 --> 00:32:33.459
That's a huge gaslight as well, because just like narcissists, they're, they'll punch you in the face, kick you in the balls, and then tell you, I'm trying to protect you.

00:32:34.058 --> 00:32:35.528
They are not trying to protect you.

00:32:35.528 --> 00:32:38.348
This inner right, this inner voice is not trying to protect you.

00:32:38.679 --> 00:32:39.308
Guess what?

00:32:39.459 --> 00:32:40.989
It's out for itself.

00:32:41.348 --> 00:32:42.519
It's out for itself.

00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:43.808
It's not out for you.

00:32:44.078 --> 00:32:45.608
So don't en don't engage.

00:32:46.568 --> 00:32:47.138
Not today.

00:32:47.138 --> 00:32:47.148
Mm-hmm.

00:32:47.148 --> 00:32:47.558
Not today, Satan.

00:32:48.273 --> 00:32:50.943
Don't, you don't need to be, don't owe it any courtesy.

00:32:51.213 --> 00:32:53.344
Then you wanna expose the lie.

00:32:53.523 --> 00:32:54.903
So he, okay.

00:32:54.903 --> 00:32:54.993
Mm-hmm.

00:32:55.594 --> 00:32:56.669
Had the shame-based programming.

00:32:57.304 --> 00:32:58.534
This is control.

00:32:58.653 --> 00:33:00.544
This is not my story.

00:33:00.814 --> 00:33:00.844
Mm.

00:33:00.844 --> 00:33:04.023
And really just speaking that disarms its power.

00:33:04.028 --> 00:33:04.429
Mm-hmm.

00:33:04.509 --> 00:33:08.193
And I talked about how shame kind of does a full body hijack.

00:33:08.193 --> 00:33:08.284
Right?

00:33:08.584 --> 00:33:20.614
So we wanna, we need to come back to the body and this is anchor in truth, anchor in your body, come back to your body, feel your breath, plant your feet, say your name the year.

00:33:20.763 --> 00:33:22.324
And really you could even, mm-hmm.

00:33:22.564 --> 00:33:25.203
Give your mind your nervous system unsafe.

00:33:25.489 --> 00:33:26.358
I'm sovereign.

00:33:26.419 --> 00:33:27.288
I'm still here.

00:33:27.288 --> 00:33:28.189
We're still good?

00:33:28.638 --> 00:33:28.729
Mm-hmm.

00:33:28.969 --> 00:33:32.358
So that's a, and then Kate is kick it out.

00:33:33.739 --> 00:33:35.328
So shake it off, stomp it out.

00:33:35.388 --> 00:33:35.959
The say it.

00:33:35.989 --> 00:33:36.828
This is not mine.

00:33:36.828 --> 00:33:38.118
This is inherited shame.

00:33:38.118 --> 00:33:38.179
Yeah.

00:33:38.628 --> 00:33:40.878
This is not yours to carry anymore.

00:33:41.148 --> 00:33:43.788
And literally shake it off your body.

00:33:44.148 --> 00:33:47.058
Um, this is what, you know, animals do after they've been hunted.

00:33:47.058 --> 00:33:47.118
Yeah.

00:33:48.078 --> 00:33:53.868
They survive, they actually physically shake it off and then, you know, five years later they're not sitting there.

00:33:53.868 --> 00:33:54.314
Oh my God.

00:33:54.653 --> 00:33:54.874
Yes.

00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:55.848
Oh me.

00:33:55.848 --> 00:33:56.419
Oh my God.

00:33:56.419 --> 00:33:57.048
I'm something.

00:33:57.348 --> 00:33:58.368
Animals don't do that.

00:33:58.368 --> 00:34:03.078
And animals that are domesticated do that because they're taking on our toxic shame.

00:34:03.409 --> 00:34:05.479
But we don't have to do that anymore.

00:34:05.479 --> 00:34:07.398
We can break the cycle for ourselves.

00:34:07.429 --> 00:34:13.474
And like you said, everyone, every animal, every being around you will feel that shamelessness.

00:34:13.474 --> 00:34:13.713
Mm-hmm.

00:34:13.793 --> 00:34:14.393
And that that is.

00:34:14.733 --> 00:34:15.423
Power.

00:34:15.423 --> 00:34:21.034
That is an elevating, that's an inspiring energy that is very rare in the world today.

00:34:21.603 --> 00:34:26.289
Love that, and such a simple, um, acronym Break.

00:34:27.543 --> 00:34:32.224
Thank you so much for sharing that and giving us some concrete.

00:34:32.313 --> 00:34:34.653
I can go do this, I can practice this.

00:34:34.653 --> 00:34:47.134
I can become aware and I can actually respond and take ownership and responsibility and kick the narciss system narcissist out of my inner critic brain.

00:34:47.224 --> 00:34:48.693
Thank you very much.

00:34:49.429 --> 00:34:50.539
Thank you, Emma.

00:34:50.539 --> 00:34:55.849
Is there anything that you would love to share before we close off today?

00:34:55.849 --> 00:34:57.528
Is there anything that you haven't shared?

00:34:57.528 --> 00:35:02.958
I know there's lots, but is there, is there one golden nugget that you wanna end with?

00:35:04.849 --> 00:35:05.929
You don't need shame.

00:35:06.438 --> 00:35:09.469
Yeah, you don't, you don't need a for anything.

00:35:09.469 --> 00:35:10.849
It may, it doesn't make you better.

00:35:11.329 --> 00:35:12.228
It makes you worse.

00:35:12.469 --> 00:35:13.039
There you go.

00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.998
It makes you, it makes you narcissistic, it makes you self-centered.

00:35:17.389 --> 00:35:18.253
It makes you unhappy.

00:35:19.398 --> 00:35:22.128
Stop shaming yourself and stop shaming other people.

00:35:22.128 --> 00:35:26.809
Break, you can break that cycle for, for yourself and for the world.

00:35:26.809 --> 00:35:27.949
It can start with you.

00:35:28.668 --> 00:35:28.909
Yeah.

00:35:28.909 --> 00:35:31.878
And um, I have a, I have a free gift.

00:35:32.298 --> 00:35:32.389
Mm-hmm.

00:35:32.628 --> 00:35:33.438
If I could talk about that.

00:35:33.438 --> 00:35:34.608
Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:34.608 --> 00:35:34.818
Yeah.

00:35:34.824 --> 00:35:34.963
So it's.

00:35:35.628 --> 00:35:39.018
Five signs that it's time to break up with your five signs.

00:35:39.018 --> 00:35:40.969
It's time to break up with your inner narcissist.

00:35:40.969 --> 00:35:43.338
So if you've, if you're listening to this and they, oh my God, yes.

00:35:43.338 --> 00:35:45.228
I do shame myself a voice.

00:35:45.228 --> 00:35:46.818
It does shame me a lot.

00:35:46.818 --> 00:35:46.909
Yeah.

00:35:47.509 --> 00:35:50.268
And, uh, you know, I can see how it's holding me back.

00:35:50.273 --> 00:35:50.414
Mm-hmm.

00:35:50.534 --> 00:35:50.934
This, uh.

00:35:51.773 --> 00:35:53.094
It's a checklist.

00:35:53.094 --> 00:36:03.563
You can see five signs that it's actually time to break up with that, and it's also got concrete steps beyond what we spoke about today about how to really put that in place.

00:36:03.833 --> 00:36:07.463
And you can find that@tinyurl.com slash.

00:36:07.648 --> 00:36:09.119
Not today, narc.

00:36:09.179 --> 00:36:10.018
NARC.

00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:11.159
Not today, narc.

00:36:11.518 --> 00:36:12.478
So, yeah.

00:36:12.478 --> 00:36:12.489
Okay.

00:36:12.503 --> 00:36:13.829
You can, you can check.

00:36:13.829 --> 00:36:14.909
Definitely check that out.

00:36:14.909 --> 00:36:17.338
If you are inspired and you know, follow me.

00:36:17.344 --> 00:36:17.364
Perfect.

00:36:17.369 --> 00:36:17.518
Perfect.

00:36:17.518 --> 00:36:18.358
Reach out to me.

00:36:18.358 --> 00:36:19.228
Send me a message.

00:36:19.228 --> 00:36:19.289
Yeah.

00:36:19.378 --> 00:36:21.539
You know how you found this conversation?

00:36:21.898 --> 00:36:22.108
Yeah.

00:36:22.108 --> 00:36:25.228
On trauma matrix, on Instagram and everywhere.

00:36:26.329 --> 00:36:27.079
Perfect.

00:36:27.409 --> 00:36:31.278
We will absolutely take all that information and put it in our show notes as well.

00:36:31.278 --> 00:36:37.309
For those who are listening and want to don't have paper and pencil at the moment, we will make sure we get that.

00:36:37.309 --> 00:36:40.099
We get that information from Emma and it will go in the show notes.

00:36:40.099 --> 00:36:42.228
So thank you so much for that free gift.

00:36:42.619 --> 00:36:47.869
We always love gifts from our incredible guests on this show'cause they're always golden.

00:36:48.684 --> 00:37:02.423
Emma, thank you so much for the work you do for the awareness that has brought you to doing the work you are doing now, and we so appreciate this time and energy and space with you today.

00:37:02.423 --> 00:37:03.054
Thank you.

00:37:03.293 --> 00:37:04.193
It's been a pleasure.

00:37:04.853 --> 00:37:05.994
Thank you so much, Denise.

00:37:07.253 --> 00:37:17.664
If you felt something, heard, something been moved by something in our conversation today, take action for you by you because of you.

00:37:18.349 --> 00:37:21.498
You've got this, ladies, the ball is in your court.

00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:32.809
Please make sure that you begin this journey around understanding and taking control of and becoming closer to shameless every single day.

00:37:32.929 --> 00:37:33.978
Thank you, Emma.

00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:35.119
Thank you for listening.

00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.998
Please follow, share, give us a review.

00:37:37.998 --> 00:37:39.978
We love to hear from you.

00:37:40.248 --> 00:37:41.719
Have a great day everyone.