It Wasn't About the Food with Betsy Brenner

Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Thrive After 45. I'm Denise Drinkwalter, heart whisperer, midlife mirror and mentor. And every week I am honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45. Together we'll uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion. What if it's not too late to heal your relationship with your body, your food, and yourself? No matter how many years you've lived this way. It is such an honor and a privilege to welcome Betsy Brenner to our show today. Betsy is an author, recovery speaker, peer mentor, and the founder of Gifts of Recovery. Since the release of her memoir in 2020-21, she has been quietly and powerfully supporting women in midlife who are navigating eating disorders and their relationship with food, body, and self. Not as someone who claims to have all the answers, but as someone who has lived it. Her work reaches into the spaces in between. In between appointments, in between hard moments, in between the thoughts women often carry alone. Through peer mentorship and support groups, Betsy offers something deeply human, a steady presence, a shared understanding, and a reminder that healing is not only possible, but available at any age. Her story has already impacted hundreds of women around the world simply because she chose to tell the truth. And today she's here with us, and I cannot wait to have our conversation today. Thank you, Betsy, so much for being here with us today Well, thank you, Denise. It's an honor for me to be here. I'm very grateful to have this time with you. We had an incredible opportunity because you travel far and wide to have conversations and to have these supports through conversations with a variety of groups, individuals, um, all kinds of people who reach out. And we, I was so fortunate to get a r- in real life hug from you. I will never forget our meetup. It was so beautiful to meet you in person. Your heart is so filled with gold, and if you ever get a chance to hear Betsy or connect with Betsy, do. You will never find a more beautiful, genuine human being ever. So I will never forget our time together, even though it was very short, but we, we were able to, like I say, have an, an r- in real live person hug, which is pretty rare with the, with the number of guests that I have. So such an honor to have you here with us today. Um, where do we begin? Let's hear your story a little bit. I mean, I've been reading your book, and I'll tell you, Betsy, there have been huge lumps in my throat at moments in reading your book. And, and I know we've had a conversation, and I'm like, I'm working my way through because it is so profound in terms of I feel like I know you very deeply as a result of reading what I've read so far, and my heart aches so much sometimes when I'm read- I'm teary. And I've not experienced what you have gone through, but you really take the reader into your experience to depths that is very unique, which shows your personality, and I love it. So give us an overview so that those listeners who aren't sure who you are get a better idea of who is Betsy. Well, thank you for that introduction. And I, I'm getting tears in my eyes. And, uh, I'm grateful to have this opportunity. Um, there's been a lot of chapters- to my life story, and we're still adding new ones. But basically in a nutshell, my, my childhood started out as one of white suburban privilege. Always had a roof over my head, enough food to eat, a mom and dad who loved me, a younger sister. Um, but I, I went through difficult experiences that are hardly extraordinary, but it's because they're ordinary that so many people- Mm can relate to them, and I hear that from women around the world in emails I receive weekly. Basically, my parents were divorced when I was a young child. Again, that's very common. It wasn't as common when I was a young child back in the '70s. Right. Dating myself here a bit. Um, but what was profound at that point is my mom went on as if nothing happened, whereas nowadays I hope, and it's always a difficult situation, that there is a focus on the emotional impact for everyone involved. Mm-hmm. No matter what the facts are, no matter what the circumstances. But it was modeled for me at a very young age that when something- Mm bad happens, something traumatic happens, we don't talk about it. We don't express our feelings or emotions. We just go on as if nothing happened. So that really set the stage for a childhood, adolescence, and young adulthood of internalizing any and all difficult emotions. Mm. I was never given permission to feel, to express negative thoughts or emotions. I was never given permission to be vulnerable. In fact, that was always equated with weakness. Mm-hmm. So I put everything I had into being strong and positive and high achieving, which I was able to do in the classroom and on the tennis court, and that made everything okay. Mm-hmm. And it takes its toll after a while. And then in college, both my parents were diagnosed with cancer. My mom lived 14 more years, my dad only two. Mm-hmm. But I wasn't equipped to handle their devastating diagnoses, their illnesses, and the subsequent loss of both my parents, and having very complicated relationships with both of them leads to very complicated grief. But I didn't have the emotional wherewithal to process my grief in a healthy way, so that was more feelings just internalized. Right. And it wasn't till the perfect storm in my 40s that really everything came to a head. I learned that I had struggled with anxiety- Mm significant anxiety since I was a young child, this profound grief and loss I had experienced. Emotions that were numbed for decades- Yes a perfect storm hit in my 40s. I was diagnosed with moderate to severe asthma. I had never had to deal with a physical illness, one that I would have to take medication for and manage for the rest of my life. It was at this time my anxiety was diagnosed, and at the same time, I'd just gotten back into tennis after, um, 20-plus years of not playing. Mm-hmm. And I developed this intense fear of weight gain. So my eating had been disordered for years- Mm-hmm but I was an athlete. I played high-level college tennis, and I thought my relationship with food and exercise was, was just because I was an athlete. Right. But when this perfect storm hit in my 40s, my eating disorder really took hold as a way to cope with anxiety, emotions, feeling out of control, easing the fear of weight gain. But I also have to say that my eating disorder became my catalyst for healing, not just from my relationship with food and body image, but my relationship with myself, and it, it transformed my life, my way of s- seeing myself, allowing in vulnerability, um, learning to express those feelings, learning to use my voice. So all those challenges, which I just really touched upon- Yeah uh, they just culminated in this eating disorder be- that became life-changing and a catalyst for deep healing. So long you have been carrying the weight of things you didn't even understand the depth with which it framed who you were. I can imagine there are women in the audience right now with their hand up or their head down going, "Oh, my gosh, I see myself in some of what she's saying. I was not a tennis player, but I see some pieces that connect, that resonated." My body got that ugh. Ouch, that hurts. I get that. How did your journey begin then? Because you are in so deep in your 40s. H- what, where was the light that turned on for you as like, "Wait a minute here," or was it a gradual... How did that come about in terms of your healing journey? Well, it was not an aha moment or a switch, a flip of the switch. Yeah. A physician of mine had noticed the weight loss, which was significant in my small frame and small body during this perfect storm- Yeah and referred me to a dietician, which... And I probably held onto that name and phone number for months before I made the call. Mm-hmm. But at my very first appointment, I was diagnosed with anorexia, and I was shocked. Yeah. I thought that to have anorexia you have to be a young adolescent or a young adult. Here I was in my 40s. I ate three meals a day. I was a mother of three, high school tennis coach, very busy with my- Mm family, community. How could I have an eating disorder? Mm-hmm. So that began the long journey of, first of all, realizing that anybody at any age and any body type can develop an eating disorder at any time. Mm. I also had to learn that my eating disorder wasn't about the food. I'm like, "How can an eating disorder not be about food?" Right. And that's when I began learning that the- Yeah behaviors with food and f- exercise for me, restricting my food intake, comp- compensatory exercise, those were the symptoms of what was going on inside. And what was going in, on inside? Anxiety, mild depression, grief, feeling like I always had to be positive and strong. So the dietician referred me to a therapist who specialized in eating disorders. Mm-hmm. And there began the journey of getting in touch with decades of internalized emotions, learning how to recognize and manage the anxiety- Mm-hmm restoring my weight, and this journey of healing. And it's never linear. There's always twists and turns and steps backwards and sideways, but I was all in, even though I was also in- Sh- denial at the same time. Right, yeah. Is, is there... And, and this might be way simplified questions, so let's go to the depth of the, deepness of what's coming through for me. But is there a finish line, as it were? Is there a, "I'm healed, I'm okay," or you just mentioned there, you slip back. Is that something that will happen throughout our lifetimes? I think like any other illness- Mm whether it's a mental illness or a physical illness- Eating disorders are serious, complex illnesses that often have to be managed for a lifetime. Mm-hmm. I always say my recovery is very strong. I don't believe there is an actual finite finish line. Yeah. I know many, many people who consider themselves fully recovered and never have to deal with the eating disorder voice ever again. Mm-hmm. But the last line in my memoir is, "It's never too late to be a work in progress." It's never too late to heal, which is obvious, but the work in progress means we can always become healthier in mind, body, and spirit. Mm. Mm-hmm. It, I think it's a lifelong journey, and I think if we create this illusion of a finish line- Yeah there isn't that window open for continued personal growth. Thank you for that. So I, I, I don't believe there is an absolute finish line. Yeah. Thank you for that, because we talk about this a lot in our show, in the fact that my belief is if I stop learning, no matter what that needs to look like for me, in whatever phase of life I'm working through and supporting myself to grow, once those days stop, my goal is that that's my last breath, as it were. Because I'm not being the best me for me if I'm not continuing to learn and grow and expand, even if it's little pieces. N- people don't even need to know. It's not about me putting something on the wall saying, "Oh, I just finished this course," or whatever. It's about my own personal journey. So I'm in full agreement with what you're saying, and I know some people would love to be able to say, "But can't I just put it on... That's it. I've got that taken care of. Next?" That's our old way, isn't it, of coping, of saying, "Okay, once that's done, I'll be free and clear for the rest of my career," right, or my living, right? Yes, yes. Yeah. And I think what helps us go forward is that self-awareness- Yes and understanding that, yes, my recovery is very strong. I haven't engaged in behaviors- Yeah for years. But it's something I always have to be aware of. Yes, so important. And I'm continuing to learn and grow and, like I said, become healthier in mind, body, and spirit, and I hope that never stops. Absolutely. And isn't it wonderful that you are the one who's in charge of all that now? It's no longer exterior coming in. It's all from the interior moving out as it gets to be, right? Absolutely Yeah, yeah. Tell us, I have a copy of the book. So those of you who are watching on YouTube, those of you who are listening, I will sh- I will tell you, it's called The Longest Match: Rallying to Defeat an Eating Disorder in Midlife. And you heard that probably it didn't just start in midlife, it was when it was recognized in terms of the components that did exist. And so I'm curious, are you... Have you always had a dream to write a book? Have you always had that vision, "I'm gonna be an author someday"? Maybe it wasn't this book, but is that something that's always been part of you, or is this just happening? Did it just happen? I would say it is absolutely part of my transformation. I was always such a private person. Mm. I hadn't found my voice. I didn't know it was okay to be vulnerable. I barely let anyone in my life in to the fact that I was struggling with an eating disorder, and even when I did, I made it sound like it was something way in the past. I was a very private person, so it never crossed my mind to share my story with the world. I actually took on putting my life story into words as something that would be a long-term project, something I would work on every once in a while. Mm-hmm. And the sole purpose was to allow myself to heal on the deepest level possible. I had already done a lot of hard work, but as we talked about, healing, uh, is an ongoing process. I never once thought about publishing a book. Mm-hmm. But the pandemic hit, and I wrote my entire manuscript in 10 months, and- Wow several months into the project I was told by someone who was reading the chapters, she said, "You have something here that could really help people. You should really think- Mm about publishing it." So it wasn't until many months into the process that I, I even thought about publishing it. And even after I made the decision, found a publisher here in Rhode Island, worked with their in-house graphic design people to create the cover, even then I was anxious about the fact that- Right my story would be out there. People would know I struggled in midlife. They would know- Right all these details about my life. So even though I didn't plan any of this, I couldn't have envisioned it ever- Mm because I was so private and had no voice. But the word that comes to mind now as a result is freedom. Mm. And I embrace that every single day. For better or for worse, I've found my voice. But by sharing my story, I've learned not to worry about what others think. I'm not scared to express what I think. Mm-hmm. I've allowed invulnerability. It allows me to live my life most authentically. Mm. All these things I'm not sure I ever would've been able to do had I not put my life story into words for the world. Wow. And I love what you s- shared there in terms of it wasn't a vision you had. And isn't that the most incredible thing? Because you do what you need to do for you, for you, by you, because of you, like our show is all about. When you start to do that, we never know where it's going to go, because that's our mind deciding the end result. But when you are talking about your healing with mind, body, and soul, when all of those are connected and joined and working together, anything is possible. And our brains can't even begin to detect what that could look like, feel like, and sound like, right? Yes. And I'm grateful every day that as a result of my experiences, which, like I said, they're very relatable. They're very ordinary. They're hardly extraordinary. But it's because of that that I hear from so many people who say things to me like, "I feel like I was reading about my mother." Right? Or, "You give me hope that even though I've been struggling for decades, maybe recovery really is possible." So it, it has become my purpose, my passion. Yeah. I'm grateful that I'm at a stage in my life where I can make this my, my purpose and my passion. Uh, my children are grown. My husband's at work every day, and I just love traveling, meeting people around the United States and Canada, sharing my story, giving hope to those who are struggling, and helping individuals through mentorship and, and helping those who attend my support groups. So, um, it is pure peer support. It's the power of my own lived experience. Right. And I will say, with eating disorders, nobody can recover without professional help- Mm-hmm without clinical support. But I'm that extra support in between the appointments, that person who gets it, who understands how hard it is, and there's no such thing as too much support, as long as it's- Mm-hmm the right support. Right. Right. As people are listening, as women are grasping what you're speaking of, and maybe some are like, "Ugh, I'm a closet. I, I hear what she's saying, and I am too very afraid of if this ever came out into the world, into my, my sphere of influence, the people that I am closest to, um, what's gonna happen as a result of that?" So- In the fear, with your support, being able to have conversation, do you find that women being able to speak about it in your support group, for example, um, are able to see, "You know what? I'm not alone anymore. This is okay." Yes, absolutely. Eating disorders are such an isolating illness. Yeah. So when people who are struggling feel supported and they feel connection- Mm-hmm uh, confidentiality is key. Mm-hmm. And m- I provide that safe, confidential space- Yeah where people can connect with others who understand. So even though I facilitate, I lead, I raise the topics- Mm-hmm they feel the support from each other. Right. They can relate to each other, and even though they're from all over the United States and Canada, their facts of their stories are all different, they feel safe, they feel supported, and many of them are in longtime relationships, partnerships, marriages, but yet they can't be as vulnerable- Mm-hmm in their real lives as they can be in this safe space. Mm-hmm. So that's why I feel s- it's so important to provide that. Mm-hmm. Because I think the older we are, the more shame and secrecy there is, and it's even harder to let people in in your everyday life when you're dealing with families, careers, partners, aging parents. Whatever it is that you're dealing with, so often you become the caregiver, the caretaker- Mm and don't have the time or space or bandwidth to focus on your own needs. And again, one of the things that we talk about in our show time and time and time again is we as women in particular have been so used to creating the l- to-do lists, and our name might be on the final page, the very last, "I'll look after me when-" Mm-hmm "everything else is done." And we talk so much about when we don't look after ourselves in priority- Everybody else is impacted because we haven't given back to our mind, hearts, and soul, so we can't be our true selves as a result. We're, we're... And the ice gets thinner and thinner and thinner the more you give out instead of giving back, right? And s- Yes, I love that you can't pour from an empty cup, or on a plane you've gotta put your own oxygen mask on first. I didn't know till my own recovery that self-care was a thing. Yes. That self-care was necessary, not selfish. Yeah. That I had needs of my own and, and that it was okay to meet my own needs. Everything had been about caring for everybody else and making sure everyone else's needs were taken care of. And, um, we can't help others until we help ourselves first. We need that self-awareness, that healing, that understanding before we can share it with others. And so many people, like I said, even in the best of family situations, relationships, don't feel comfortable sharing- Yeah this vulnerability, especially struggles with an eating disorder. Because of the lack of education and general awareness, it's hard for people, to find people who truly understand. Totally. One question I have for you as we begin to close up our convers- I have two questions, actually. I've got one- Sure and then I'll give you another one. So the first one is, what, if anything, have you noticed as you are deep in your healing and your strength of recovery, what have you noticed in your life that you are most proud of as a result of everything you've accomplished for you, by you, because of you? Thank you for asking. Mm. That's a loaded question. I'll just say it gives me such gratitude and satisfaction when someone comes to me, maybe newly diagnosed or newly acknowledged that they're struggling, and they're in the depths of that hard, hard part, learning what's necessary for recovery, scared of telling a family member, starting out the professional help, and seeing them start the healing process- Mm get to a better place where they are in touch with themselves and what they need to do. Um, I, I... My book is recommended by many clinicians to women in midlife who are struggling with eating disorders, so I may get an email saying, you know,, "My therapist just recommended your book. I read it. I'm just starting out." And then maybe three years later, they're sharing their story with others. That just fills me up because so often I see people when they're really just at the depths of their struggles, and then I can see them sort of much later on in the process being able to give back, and that's truly gratifying. I will also say for me personally, the freedom. Mm. The freed- freedom to be me, freedom to use my voice, freedom to live my life authentically, and free to not worry about what other people think. Mm-hmm. And you learn a lot about the people in your life- Mm-hmm when you become so vulnerable. And in some ways your circle becomes smaller, but much more authentic. I still have wonderful friends that I love to see who are not part of that inner circle, and they may not be comfortable talking about mental health issues. Mm-hmm. And I travel all over and they may be like, "What was the weather like?" Yeah. Whereas there's other people who wanna know, "Who did you speak to? What kind of group was it? Was it a treatment center or a conference, or how did it go?" Mm-hmm. So I don't, I, I don't judge. Yep. I never judge. Yeah. I'm focused on me and what I'm able to provide for others. Mm-hmm. And those who don't understand, they don't understand. I'm here to help them understand if they want it, but I can't- Yes I have to focus on what I'm able to do based on my own lived experience. Mm-hmm. And I would love to add to what you've shared so beautifully, is that without you doing what you have done over time, your modeling wouldn't exist. So you are such a- beacon of not only hope, but strength and capacity, and your journey and your authenticity and where you have grown into attracts those who are capable of doing, seeing, and being in the way they need to do it. So you're the ripple effect. You are the stone that's tossed in, and you are rippling your effect. And I am so grateful for everything that you are doing in this world for you, by you, because of you first, and everything that's coming as a result of you doing you. So what a beautiful thing. Thank you so much, Denise. I, I really appreciate this opportunity, and, and I'm just grateful to be here and, and share all of this. And, uh- Yeah I'm grateful that the work that I'm doing is recognized. Absolutely. And only for the fact that people need to know it's available, and that healing is possible at any age from whatever we've been through. So any opportunity to share that, I, I really appreciate it. Absolutely. We will, as always, have in the show notes how to find Betsy. Your support groups, are they virtual as well as in person? How does that work? I, I run virtual support groups- Okay for women in midlife specifically. I usually do five or six-week sessions, so it's a closed group. Yeah. Um, I do charge a small fee, but I never turn anyone away who is unable to pay. Mm-hmm. Um, the primary goal is to help people. Yeah. And any fee goes just towards my travel and my, my work. But I have women from all over the United States and Canada who do my groups. And, um, like I said, five or six-week sessions. I don't put the actual dates on my website, but I share the next session always on my author Instagram, which is @BetsyBrennerAuthor, or people reach out to me by email- Sure which is in my book, on my website, everywhere, and will s- say, "When does your next session begin?" Right. And I plan these sessions around my travel schedule. So, um, my in-person group is in Providence, Rhode Island, and that is for people of all ages struggling with eating disorders. Mm-hmm. But my virtual groups focus on women in midlife, and everything that we've- Perfect talked about today. Wonderful. Again, we'll have all that information in the show notes so that you can access, um, and figure out how to get this incredible read. I'm showing it one more time for those of you who are watching on YouTube. And, um, what a, what a treat to spend this time with you. Is there anything we haven't talked about that you would love to make sure our audience hears, um, that is gonna make sure that they know how important and valued they are as an individual? That's a great question to end with. Um, I, I would just say that there are many people in midlife who don't even realize they're struggling because it just seems like that's the way it is, that's the way it's always been. So if you even feel an ounce of struggle or an ounce of hope that maybe it could be different, it's worth pursuing that because you never know what's around the corner or what is possible. Mm-hmm. Um, I get a lot of emails from people around the world. I respond to every single one. I offer to set up a time to chat for free just to explore resources and sources of support that are out there. So if you think you even one iota of struggle or- Mm or want something slightly different in your life, it doesn't have to be this way, please reach out and I can hopefully connect you with appropriate resources and, and offer what I provide as well. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Before we actually close, and I want to share something gently and very clearly, that this November I am hosting a live in-person experience, and we're calling it Ignite the Inner Uprising. It will be a two-day immersive gathering for up to 1,200 women in midlife, women who are feeling what Betsy's talking about. There's a pull. There's something more truthful, more embodied, more fully- Their own that they're trying to uncover and figure out. Ignite is an extension of these conversations that we have in Thrive After 45. It's where reflection starts to become embodiment, where insight becomes integration, and where women who have held so much for others are going to gather and stand fully in their own sovereignty. So if something stirred in you today, if your body started leaning in, I don't see that as being accidental. There is a wait list that's open, so make sure that if this is tugging at you, put yourself on the wait list. It will make sure that you gather the information as we unfold it and as things come together behind the scenes. So as always, like, follow, share, leave us a review so that more women can find these absolutely incredible conversations. Thank you again, Betsy, for being here with us today. You are a beam of light for so many. Continue to be you, and we are so grateful. Thank you, Karen. And I'm so grateful. Everybody can tell now how beautiful a soul you have and why it's so incredible that I got a in- a live, in-real-person hug. That was amazing. I'll never forget it as well, and I hope I'll be back to Ontario someday. So thank you so much for this incredible time with you and opportunity. I really appreciate it. Thank you. And make sure that you do something for you, by you, because of you as you thrive after 45.