Listen With Your Eyes with Dave Williams

Denise 0:52

Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Thrive After 45. I'm Denise Drinkwalter, heart whisperer, midlife mirror, and mentor. And every week, I am so honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45. Together, we'll uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion, because when one woman turns her light on, the rest of the room catches fire. Have you ever achieved something you've worked so hard for and then stood there wondering why it didn't still feel like it was enough? Our guest today has spent more than 40 years walking alongside people in exactly that place. He is a number one bestselling author, international speaker, and multi-award-winning coach. And what makes him different isn't his credentials, it's his gift, the ability to sit across from someone, see straight through the thing that's actually holding them back, and help them move. I mean, really move, often faster than they thought was possible. He has touched thousands of lives across five continents, women rebuilding, leaders rediscovering themselves, people who came in stuck and left lit right up. It is an honor and a privilege to welcome life coach and leadership strategist Dave Williams to our show today. So great to have you. Bless you. Thank you very much indeed, Tanesia. It's lovely to be here. And wow, what an introduction. Uh, thank you so much. I'll copy that, if you don't mind. Uh, 'cause that's the best introduction I've ever had. I- there's something, I don't know what it is, but, uh, it is not unusual for all of my guests to say the same, "Can I have a copy of that? I'm not sure-" who you were speaking of there." Well, it, it- Well... Yeah it, it, but it, but it's, it's one of those things, though, isn't it? It, it's sometimes we do things from the heart- Mm where we're, yeah, we're, we're trying to help people. And it, and sometimes it needs someone else to look at exactly what we've done and then condense it and... as you've done there, fantastically. And, uh, the check's in the post, by the way. And yeah. For us to have the realization of how much of an impact we do really have. Yeah, yeah. Because- And- you know, for so many of us, you know, we're, we just do what's right or what we feel is right at that particular time. But the snowball effect or the ripple effect that we create, you know, quite often is phenomenal, as long as we're doing it for the right reasons. Well, let's dig into that. I love that. What is the right reason? You mentioned at the beginning, you know, when you're doing work because you have the heart that's sitting behind all of it that you're doing. How do we ensure that we stay within our alignment and not move from what we know to be true, that intuition, and do it because this person asked and that person asked? A lot of the women in our audience need, me as well, and I'm learning, how to not stop doing things for others, but making sure that it's really something that is good for you as well, which is really hard to do. Yeah, it, it, it can be. And, uh, it, it, it's one of those things that so many people are actually living in their head. Mm. And, you know, they, they try and do things logically all the time because it makes sense. Mm-hmm. But the reality is we're human beings, so everything that we do is based on emotion, but we qualify it with logic. Mm. And, you know, when we come, you know, fr- from the attitude, uh, from ourselves- Yeah that we are giving. And when I say that, you're, you're exactly right. We need to look after ourselves as well. So it's not becoming a martyr, you know? That's, uh- Thank you that's different. Yes. Because, you know, I've been there. Yeah. And many people have, that we just give so much that we run out of energy ourselves. Yes. Yeah. So it, it, it's giving. And one of the things that I will say is, you know, it, it's listening to others. Mm. What they say and how they say it, and what their body is saying as well. So we, we listen with our eyes as well as our ears. That may, that may well sound a bit weird, I know. For the simple reason when people are talking, they are giving us so many clues about what is really going on. Yeah. And when they do that, that's why I say we listen with our eyes as well. The, the, there's so much said about authenticity. Mm-hmm. And yeah, I had a conversation with a dear friend of mine not so long ago, and she said, "I hate that term, because everyone should be authentic." And I agree 100%. The drawback is most people aren't. Right. Most people are portraying an image that they feel that other people want to see- Right and they've lost that, uh, authenticity. And because of that, when they're talking, when they're inquiring about people, which is a different story, um, then they're not being congruent with what they say. Right. Meaning their body is not matching what's coming out of their mouths. Mm-hmm. See, when we do things for, from the heart because we believe it's right, whether it's, you know, just helping someone, whether it's asking possibly a challenging question- Right then we do it from the right place. You know, we're, we're not looking to, um, say something, ask something, uh, or interject that's just gonna be beneficial for us. Right. See, for me, that's not what leadership is about. Right. Leadership is about being the best that we can be as individuals so we can influence everyone else in a better way. Right. And when we do that, we are being congruent, because we care about other people. Right. And when we care, that shows... And the interest that we generate with that, I don't mean interest with ourselves, but the interest of what we share, the interest of what we, um, ask, and just spending quality time with people- Mm-hmm the ripple effect is massive. Mm-hmm. And I'll give you an example of that, if I may. Yes, please. I was working with a personal client, uh, a few years ago now. Mm-hmm. And we'd actually gone through the challenges that she had and, and she'd done fantastically- Mm-hmm even if I do say so myself. Um, but we were just sitting there. We were just reviewing things about where she was and where she is now. Mm-hmm. And I said, "I'm really proud of you, you know. I'm really proud of the person you've become, the real you." And she burst into tears. Mm. And I was thinking, "I know what I meant to say. Did that come out of my mouth, or did I say something totally different?" And she was, uh, in her early 50s, and she said, "You're the first person in my life that's ever said that you're proud of me." Mm. "I've never heard that before." And I was gutted, and I must admit, I, I, you know. I could cry at TV adverts, you know. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I was there, and tears were streaming down my face. Yeah. And I thought, you know, considering the challenges this, uh, lovely lady has been through, to have to wait until, in effect, a stranger, as in someone that had only- Yeah just come into her life very briefly- Mm-hmm and for a short space of time, says that, but it had such an impact. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, people are going along in their lives and doing what they, what they're doing, et cetera, but sometimes we just need to stop- Yeah take a breath- Yeah and just think about someone, a- and, and just let them know how much we care. Mm-hmm. Because I, I, I'm a firm believer, as a generalization when I say this, as far as society is concerned- Mm-hmm there aren't many people that show they care. Right or as much as they should. We just take it for granted, because we're all trying to... Logically, we need to do this, we need to do that, but we're all human beings at the end of the day. Right. And human beings, everything that we do is, like I say, is based on emotion, so if we mean it, then share it. Right. Exactly. Um, a lot of things came through as you were speaking. One of the key pieces that I want to ask about is around the leadership. Two things, actually, I'm gonna share. I'm gonna go back to the proud moment. From what I'm hearing, what comes through for me with this client of yours that went to tears is because even though you knew her for a short period of time, you knew her in ways others didn't because of the way that you connect with people through your heart center, and that's what allowed all of that to surface in a short period of time. It was just through a general conversation and an observation you had that you shared back, right? You did what I do, the mirroring, right? Absolutely. You mirror back, right? Yeah. And so with the leadership question... So kudos to you and what you do just naturally. Mucho thank you. Keep that work going. And the second question I have that stirs around in my mind all the time is leadership, which is what you are an absolute expert in, in a variety of arenas. What comes back to me is how do we honor and how do we build self-leadership? Because I believe that when we lead ourselves- through our full alignment and our heart center, we can never go wrong. Yes, we make mistakes, but we're attuned to it, we can course-correct, we can apologize as need be, all of those things. Do you ever... Where does that sit in the realm of leadership, the self-leadership piece, from your vantage point? Well, realistically, I think you've answered the, the question- fantastically. Uh, uh, because any form of... See, w- what, I, I, I've worked with an awful lot of well-known organizations, um- Yeah and yeah, with junior manager up to boards of directors. Yep. And one of the things that I see all the time- Yeah which is going to be the opposite to what you've just shared wonderfully, if you don't mind me saying, is the fact that although they've got the title of leaders- Yeah they couldn't lead themselves out of a paper bag. Mm. Because they are not leaders in the true sense. They are by title. Right. But a title doesn't make you a leader. Mm. Because so much of what they're saying, what they are doing, how they're talking to people is coming from ego. Mm-hmm. And it's a self-preservation from them. Right. And that is not leadership- Mm-hmm because we're thinking of ourselves here. Mm. We're not thinking of others. Right. Right. And for me, leadership, exactly as you say, starts from within. You know, we as individuals are the hardest people to lead. Yeah. But we need to get our core right. Yes. Because when we do that, when we are talking to people, when we are, uh, giving instructions, asking people to do things, we're not second-guessing because it's our core. Right. And, you know, we know that we're asking or we're doing or we're leading by example for what we believe to be the right reasons. Right. Yeah. And again, exactly as you say, are we gonna make mistakes? Of course we are. We're human. Yeah. Providing we learn from them. Yeah. 'Cause if not, that's the definition of insanity, isn't it? Right. And I've been there before now as well. Some days it's a short trip, right? Absolutely. Ah, dear. Um, yeah, I, I often get, I get asked the, fact that- Mm-hmm you know, for you to be... to lead yourself- Mm-hmm is it motivation or is it discipline? And the first time I got asked by that, uh, asked that question, I thought, "Well, great question." And for me, it's, it's motivation for us to be better today than what we were yesterday And we do that initially by discipline, but discipline never lasts. Mm. Look, we're human beings, and human beings 99.9% of the- Right time go for the easy option. Right. You know? Yeah, yeah. We know that we should have a chicken salad or whatever it is... Apologies- Right if you're vegetarian. You're right. But sometimes that chocolate cake just looks too good, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. And as you may well have guessed, I've had a, a few too many slices of chocolate cake. Um, so... But discipline is great to start with because- Mm-hmm everyone needs to start with the first step. Right. But it never lasts. Right. So it's what's our key motivator to keep us going? Mm-hmm. To keep us being the best that we can be. Right. To believe in our values. Right. That what's right and what's not right, and- Yeah you know, the, the... I, I got approached by, um, five different organizations last week to do some editorials and that with them. Yeah. Now, two of them I dismissed immediately for the simple reason their values were not mine. There you go. Mm-hmm. And I'm not saying that to blow smoke, and I don't mean it that way. No. It's just that for me, every day I know that I can sleep at night because I've been the best that I can be, or again, as we've spoken about, if I've made a mistake- Yeah I'll get in touch with the person and say, "Look, I messed up there." Yeah. "Sorry. Human." Yeah. Yeah. Um- Yeah or whatever it is. Um- Yeah but they just didn't match my values. Yeah. And for me, I'm a firm believer that, you know, reputations take years to build- Mm-hmm. but seconds to destroy. Yep. And- Yeah you know, for me, my, values are my values. Mm-hmm. And if I feel that they are being, uh, eroded by selling yourself to the devil, so to speak, then- Mm-hmm it just doesn't sit with me. Right. And, you know, that may well sound, like, counterintuitive for the likes of myself, saying I always want to help and, you know, I always want to give and share and everything. However, you've also got to know where the line is drawn. I was gonna say, I think, it's empowering because you're very clear on who you are and where your, um, line is, and you know that when you do something that isn't in alignment with your values, your goals, your, your heart, your being, then it's not gonna work out anyway because it's so prickly. It's like that burr that's on your sock, and you gotta peel it off, and there's still little remnants, and, "Ah, I don't want this." You don't need to take that, right? Yeah, exactly. So when you n- when you're- clear. I am going to ask another question, let me know what comes through. But that clarity, is there a finish line to that? Or is it, does it deepen over time as you get more things... Let's go with your opportunities that you just referenced. When you get more opportunities coming through your door, does your, um, depth of values, your alignment to who you are, does that deepen and get stronger? Or it's just there, and does it take a while to tease into practice as well? Yeah. I, I, I think for me now it's there. Okay. Um, because, yeah, I, Yep, there you go. It wasn't that funny. It was funny. Okay, a lot of interest. I li- Okay. Okay. Um- I li- I'm gonna use that line. Oh, we'll share then. Okay. I love it. And obviously with being experienced in life, you know- Sure I've, I've got to know myself. Right. And what I believe to be right- Yeah and what I believe from the heart, from the gut- Yeah that is right for me. Yeah. Now, you know, for many years in my life I'd have just, you know, if that opportunity came, those opportunities, sorry, uh, came across then, I prob- probably would've snapped at all of them. Right. There you go. Yep. Yep. But now it's a case of no. It's how can I add value, but in the right way? Right. And it took some time, in all honesty, for me to even realize what my values were. Yes. It- Thank you you know, it, it, it wasn't something that, you know, I, I just opened a box of cereal and there was a sheet of A4 with a list of, um, uh, Dave's values on there or anything along those lines. Absolutely. Yeah. It was something- Yeah that I had to have that realization about- Yeah who I was as a person. Mm-hmm. And, and I, I will be brutally honest on this, I shed a lot of tears. Mm-hmm. And the reason why I did that is I looked back at some of the things that I'd done in my life previously. Mm-hmm. And possibly a bit strong, but I'm going to use this particular term, but I looked back and thought I was ashamed at how I behaved in certain s- situations. Mm-hmm. Because what I knew now and what I knew then... Oh, retrospect is easy. We know. Of course. But I wasn't living or acting at that particular time based on my values- Mm-hmm because I, I hadn't identified them. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that for two reasons- You're welcome for being vulnerable, and also for sharing the capacity and the need for us as individuals to spend time, energy, and focus on our values so we know who we are. Mm-hmm. I ask this question many times of my clients over the time that I've done this work, and we t- get into values. And I don't know. What are our values? Yeah. It's like, okay, we've got a starting point, right? Yeah. Living our lives on autopilot, doing what we think but we aren't really sure is this something that really resonates for me. Well, I've, I've done it all along. I might as well just carry on, right? Mm-hmm. And so when you get to 45, we get to thrive. And one of the strongest ways is to, as we're speaking about, is to tune into and start really developing and understanding what your value-based system is. Yes. Is it really aligned with who you are? And it's okay. You get to change. Yes. Absolutely. Right? And I, I, I think as well that quite often, not necessarily our core values, but a lot of our values will change over time- Right because we've had life experiences. Mm-hmm. And we've got additional life references. And, you know, sometimes- We will take stock, a- a- again, as you say, and sometimes, you know, w- with a value that we thought we had- Mm sometimes it's good to throw that in the trash can. Yeah. Yeah. It served its time, it served its purpose- Yeah or it didn't, and that's okay. Yeah. Absolutely. It doesn't align. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that is another avenue, another lane of self-leadership, isn't it? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, o- once we know our values, we know... Because our values are gonna impact our beliefs, and our beliefs are gonna impact how we behave. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, i- if, if I can take public speaking a- as an example, if our value is I love to serve people, but our belief is we get an opportunity to, uh, speak publicly to an audience of however many, that we're gonna mess it up. Um, and, you know, so many people will then shy away from that, and then have the regret that I didn't- Yeah take that opportunity. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, I, I, I know an awful lot of, you know, international speakers and, uh, and that as well, and, you know, a good chunk of them, they get really nervous before they go on stage as well, like I do. Mm-hmm. So using that analogy, you know, if you're just starting off or you get that opportunity, being nervous is great. Yeah. Because instead of, uh, what, what I do now is instead of saying, "Oh, look, I'm nervous," "I'm excited." Excited, yeah. Because we've got the opportunity to speak to all these people, and, you know, the, the, the values are still the same. Yes. But it's just changing our beliefs. Because when we do that, we, you know, share our values more and more by our actions, uh, you know, what we say, what we do. Because- Yeah what a lot of people don't realize is everything that we say and everything that we do, people are watching. Absolutely. And quite often when I share this, people go, "What? Really?" And, you know, that, that's the reality. Uh, and it's not saying that, you know, we're being followed by Big Brother- Of course camera 24 hours a day. I hope not, anyway. Um, but, uh, you know, especially if you've got kids. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know? And well, realistically, you know, when you work with adults, they're basically kids as well, it's just that they're in bigger bodies, because mentality's very much the same. Um, but with kids, you know, i- in particular, they're picking these things up. Or in, or possibly grandchildren, whichever. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's... When... Sometimes when we look back at that, you know, it, it, it's, it, it, it can be a case of, "Oh." Yeah. "Did I do that?" I, I just heard... I just saw myself. Oh, no. Yeah That's what I look like. You can see it. Yeah. Yeah. You tune into it very quickly. Yes. So it's, uh, uh, uh, and again, you know, values are, are so important, um- Mm-hmm because again, as you say, self-leadership, once we identify who we are- Right you know, we're, we're not just, um, you know, a, a tax number or, or- Yeah whatever. Yeah. You know? Yes, we've got to have numbers at, at different times in our lives. Mm-hmm. But that's just one little element of us. Right. Right. And the beauty of it is, we, you know, we've got multiple people inside us. Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, I, I don't mean that to sound like everyone's schizophrenic or anything like that. No. I don't mean it that way. It, it's just that, uh, uh, you know, at certain times a different part of us will be the dominant feature in how we speak, how we behave, as an example. Right. However, when all of these different personalities that we have are all aligned- Exactly with our core values, then it doesn't matter which personality comes out, you know, we know the message is still gonna be the same. Exactly. I love that. That's perfect. Yeah, the foundation is solid- Yeah and the house is not... There's still gonna be the different rooms. There's the bedroom- Yeah the kitchen, the bathroom, that they're all existing, but they're all coming from the same foundation. They all share the same air, as it were. Mm. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. I love that. Is there one thing that happened in your life that does drive you forward? Yeah. You could say that, somewhat. Um, yeah. In the industry it's known as a, as a significant emotional event. And- Okay I won't bore you with the full story. Um- And let's just say it's, my world turned totally upside down. Okay. Um, 'cause in 2015, uh, 10th of December in 2015, uh, all of a sudden my partner passed away with a heart attack at the age of 50. Mm-hmm. And- Yeah um, I pretty much lost anything, e- everything- Yeah including my marbles, really. Yeah. Um- Awe so, um, yeah, it, it was, it was totally unexpected. And what, well, obviously what she didn't know is two days before that I was online looking for rings to propose to her at Christmas. And, yeah, let's just say it was an interesting Christmas. Mm-hmm. And it took me a while, and a- a- again, potentially going back to values, but it's also a case where, and, you know, for any of your audience that are going through, yeah, a significant emotional event- Right um, then it's okay to take some time. Mm-hmm. Because we need to process it, and, you know, we, we've actually got, depending on which one you read, the five or seven stages of grief and all of that. Sure. Um, it doesn't mean to say you follow them in that order- Yeah or anything along those lines. You can go from this one to this one. Um, Mm. So it's, like everything, it's just a guide. Right. And I think I went through, you know, most of those things. Um, and I, I, for the first two or three months I was looking after Helen's family as best I could, being there as a support. Yeah. But also l- also looking after my family and that as well. Right. And they, they were some distance away from each other, so I was like piggy in the middle. Yeah. But it was 2016 that, um, I went back home, and I'd sort of let, uh, the families- Start to take control of themselves again Mm-hmm Um, I don't mean that in a, a, in, you know, a, in a self-indulge- uh, indulgence, power way- Right. Of course or anything along those lines. Um, but it was also a case of like we all need to, while still be together, but also- Yes start to move forward. Right. And yeah, I, I really hit rock bottom in 2016, uh, and so much so that I even contemplated ending my own suffering. Mm. Something I'm not proud of, but it was the bolt that I needed. Yeah. I knew I had to make a decision to either continue as I was and I wouldn't be around much longer, or to realize that I can use this to help myself. Yeah. But then wasn't necessarily thinking this as much at the time, because I was just desperate- Right but to help others. Yeah. And so I just made the decision to change. And you know, when anyone's going through, uh, any particular challenges, uh, in life, the first thing is to make a decision. Mm. 'Cause so many people... And this is what I'd been doing, I hasten to add. Mm-hmm. I'd been deflecting what I needed to do- Mm by focusing on the respective family. Absolutely. Yeah. So I hadn't been looking after myself. Mm-hmm. I'd been reliant on them, so they'd become a crutch to me as much as I'd become a crutch to them. Makes sense, yeah. And it was only at that time that, like I say, I made that decision that things needed to change. Mm-hmm. And that's what I did. And it was, yeah, it was really slow process, you know. Yeah. It was one step forward, five back and, yeah, I, I became a bed slug, uh, uh, at times- Yeah, yeah and I was just wrapped up in my quilt. Sure. Yeah. And, um- Yeah yeah. But, but it was also a case of the worst situation that I'd ever been in- Yeah in one way became the best situation that I'd ever been in from a personal perspective. Mm-hmm. And the reason why I say that is I needed to discover myself. And know that I was rock bottom. Mm-hmm. And anything that I did from then moving forward was literally one step at a time. Yeah. And that's when I really discovered myself. Mm-hmm. And with work that I then did with different people and- Mm-hmm I thought I had, if I say got over the situation, I don't mean that in a flippant way. Yeah. Um, but I'd learnt to manage the situation, shall we say. Mm-hmm. And then I had a coach come and see me. It was only meant to be coming in for a cup of coffee. Okay. Four hours later he left. It was a long cup of coffee. Yeah. But he asked me this question, and obviously it's resonated with me since, and he said, "What was the good to come out of that situation?" Mm. And I must admit, I was devastated at the time. You know, I- I'm sure a typical guy thing, you know, I was going, "How dare you?" Yeah. You know, "I'll take him outside and," you know- Yeah "and have a go." And it was the ideal question, and I was in bed for two days afterwards, 'cause emotionally I'd gone. Sure. Yeah. But it helped me- Yeah to have that realization. So instead of putting a, a, you know, a suit of armor on, saying, "Yes, it's, it's all good," and all of that- Right this was the catalyst for me then coming out of that being congruent with what I said and did. Mm. Mm-hmm. And don't get me wrong, I still have some, some days where I'm flopped. Of course. At... Absolutely. But life's a journey. Yeah. Uh, and then, yeah, realistically it was that conversation that was the catalyst- Mm for everything I've done in the meantime. Mm-hmm. And the, the way I view it is the fact that, yeah, Hel, well, Helen, I call her, called her Hel, and I had plans. Mm. So, so many of those plans I'm still doing, so we're still doing it collectively. Nice. Um, because, you know, i- if someone passes away, if we lose someone, uh, and, you know, their time on this planet was destined to be at an end- Mm-hmm my philosophy was, but they're always with me, whether I want them to or not, you know? I can always think of them in my heart. I can always picture them. Yeah. Yeah. I can always do that when I want. Mm-hmm. So they're always with me. Right. Yeah. So it's just a different chapter, just. Mm-hmm. That, that sounded flippant. I didn't mean it like that. It is a different chapter. Right. But for everything I do, we're still doing it together. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, that's never going to change. Mm-hmm. Because she was such an integral part of my life. She's, she, uh, like you say, she's, she's part of you. Yeah. She always, Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's true. So it's- Yeah no, nothing, uh, in my mind, nothing ever ends unless you want it to. Yeah, uh, yeah. Decisions again. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And isn't that the incredible piece is that we are actually in charge of the wheel of our lives. Absolutely. And when we really understand that metaphor inside and out, everything gets to change because we choose to make that so, right? Yes. And thank you for sharing that story. Um, I love that she is always with you. She's been a part of you and always will be, no matter what. And I have such a desire to share this show so widely so that others, when they hit those big emotional roller coasters that swallow them whole, or maybe they can avoid it by having listened to conversations like these to start to put things into place so they can move through life with more ease, I'm going to say. I don't know if that's the right term, but with less huge, big balls coming down on top of them. We can't always avoid them, as you know, as we all know, but maybe we'll have a better under- uh, footing underneath us- Yeah to be able to handle what can come our way. We don't need to experience all of that in order to move our needle, I guess, is the end result of what I'm sharing, yeah. Absolutely. What a wonderful conversation. I knew it would be. Mm. Is there anything that you would love to share with our audience as we begin to close this conversation? It doesn't mean we won't come back for another one, but is there anything- Mm here that you'd love to share that the audience, you think is really important that they take away with all the other things you've shared? Yeah. Thank you. Uh, all I'll say is, a- a- and this is something I, I, I thought of about six years ago now. Um, I, I'd been doing a presentation in, in, in front of a, a group of people. Mm-hmm. And it just came from the heart, like so much of what I say and do does. Mm. Um, so, and I, I just came out and I thought, "Mm, I, I like that." So, um, but it was a case of always be 100% of yourself all of the time. Mm. Because you just don't know who you're going to influence. Love that. Love that. And that can be a smile, it can be a wave, it can be a hug. It can just be, "How are you?" Mm-hmm. And how are you with a pause to listen to the response? Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, uh, and this is where the listening, and we're going back to the beginning- Yeah, of course the listening. Because so many people are geared up to say, "I'm fine. I'm fine." Yes. Yes. Uh, and they're not, not being congruent. And I, I find it ridiculous these days, when there's all this about mental health and everything, you know. And I'm assuming- Yeah uh, over in Canada and that- Absolutely it, it, it's very similar. Yeah. That so many people don't ask how someone else is. Mm-hmm. You know, they just make an assumption. And e- even on emails if you haven't communicated for a while. Yeah. So, w- uh, again, going back to the listening with your eyes and your ears. Yeah. Look for the response and how they respond. Mm-hmm. Because quite often I'll say, "Hi, how are you?" And I'll get the bog standard answer. You know- Yeah "I'm fine." You know. Yeah. Freaked out, insecure, uh- Yeah. neurotic and emotional. Neurotic. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so because I can see that what they are saying and their body, uh, are out of sync, I'll follow... I, I normally follow it up and say, "Oh, that's fantastic. So pleased to hear that. How are you really?" Really, yeah. Uh, soften the tone. Mm-hmm. And people aren't expecting that. And it's amazing how many people are just taken aback by that. And I'm not doing it out of spite. Right. No, no, not at all. I'm doing it because I can see something's not, not quite right. Mm-hmm. And quite often they'll just explode or, or verbally vomit on you, shall we say. Yeah. Um, and because, you know, there are so many people that are going through challenges. You know, quite often at home. Yeah. You know, where not necessarily talking to the partner or whatever. Right. Yeah. And they just need someone's ear for five minutes. Yeah, yeah. And if you can do that, then quite often if you... A- again, as you said a bit earlier on, if you listen- Mm-hmm don't judge. Yeah. But just listen. Yeah. Let them air what they want to air, and more often than not, let's say it's five-minute conversation, you will see their physiology, as in their body language, change massively. So all of a sudden they're walk- you know, they're leaving, let's say it was in an office. They're leaving the office standing a bit more upright, shoulders back- Mm-hmm head up, and it's as if they've found an air of confidence. Yeah, yeah. I love what you're saying. A piece that I want to add on to that, and particularly, and I know it's not solely, but particularly for women, and I will add an addition to that would be moms as well, that there's this I don't even know. Energy where they feel like once they hear it, they have to respond, have to help them fix it. No, just listen. Let the other person share. And some people are, "How do I get out of that without trying to fix it? 'Cause I, I feels for them, and I've done that, and da, la, la, la, la." Right? It gets into a whole thing. Just letting them share, and then say, "Thank you so much for sharing." Absolutely. And just let it sit, right? Mm. Is that... Okay. Yes. I, I, I couldn't agree with you more. Okay. Uh, you know, 90, uh, uh, around about 95% of my personal clients are ladies. I don't know why. Obviously, it's my stellar good looks. Uh. If only. Um, uh, uh, and y- you are right. And, you know, what I tend to find as a generalization when I say this- Yeah, yeah uh, ladies tend to hang on to the emotions- Yes a hell of a lot more than what guys do. Um, but for- Yep longer. And then, you know, ladies are wonderful, uh, creatures. Um, and I didn't mean that disrespectful, calling ladies creatures. Yeah. But yeah, wonderful human beings because- Yeah you know, uh, it's, um... Yeah, I'll come back to that in a, in a moment. Uh, I, I, I'll just share one little thing with you now. I love being a mixed audience, especially boards of directors. Mm-hmm. Because I find it wonderful. Mm-hmm. Um, because I do... Oh, this is going live. Y- well, it's gonna be going out, so yeah, I'll share it. It's all good. I do play one against the other in many ways. Yep, yep. In a fun way. Yeah. Because I quite often say, "Yes," um, uh, and I normally get one... You know, the ladies, uh, get them to slump, and the guys to, you know- Yeah bare their... Not literally bare their chest, but you know- Yeah the posture's much better and, uh... 'Cause I say, "Look, if you... With your business, if you want anything doing, give it to a guy." And the guys are there, "Weh," you know, that sort of thing. Uh, and I say, "'Cause guys are results driven, and what they'll do, they'll go from here and they'll get to there." Fantastic. Mm-hmm. And the guys are, you know, y- you could imagine them getting the, the mirrors- Sure out, couldn't you? And doing all of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, "Aren't we good?" And all of that. Yeah. And then I s- turn round and say, "If you want anything doing properly, give it to a lady." And you see the guys go, "Hmm," uh, and the ladies go, "Yeah." And it's the simple reason. Right. Obviously, why, we are built different and our minds, uh, work slightly differently as well. Right. Because ladies will get from A to B fantastic. Yeah. It may well take a bit longer. Bear with me. Because quite often, instead of doing a straight line, they will go up- Yeah and say, "Right, what if this happens?" Right. They'll get it resolved. And then they'll go a bit more, "What if this happens?" They'll get it resolved. And this is why I say it'll ta- sometimes take a bit longer. Mm-hmm. Because they'll still get to the end game- Right but what they've done is they've resolved all the challenges that guys don't often think about. Right. Right. Guys are all about speed and, you know, I'm generalizing here massively, Of course. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. All about results, let's get there as quickly as we can do. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Ladies are an awful lot more measured. Mm-hmm. Because they have to think, you know, if we go back to Neanderthal times, you know, the traditional role of a lady was to look after the house and- Right uh, and the children and everything. Right. So they're always thinking, "Is that gonna be safe? Is that gonna be-" Yeah. "Is that..." And our minds are still very much like that now, so. Of course. Yeah, uh, so, you know, as far as ladies are concerned, absolutely. But one thing I will say, ladies, please just don't overthink things. Mm. Yeah? You know, the situation is as is. Mm-hmm. Then what do you want to happen? Focus on the solution. Right. Right, yeah. Love that. Yeah, because staying here is not gonna help. Right. Creating more stories is not gonna help. Yeah. So focus on the solution, then, as we spoke about a bit earlier on, make the decision what needs to happen to help you get there. Yep. Yep. And it may well take you a little bit longer. It doesn't matter. There's no time slot on the vast majority of things, unless you need- Right to get your tax return in by- Of course a certain date. Of course. Um- And deadlines are there for a reason, and that's- Absolutely another story, right? But that ties back into what you were talking about earlier about decisions. Um, yeah. Make the decision, what is it, y- your end point, and don't get caught up in, which I'm working on. There are some things that are big that get caught up in what if, what if- Yeah what if, like you suggested. But when we stick in the what if and don't move the needle and don't make the action, and then we've done a disservice not only to ourselves, but to the larger community, whatever that is- Absolutely and what you're working on. Wonderful. Dave, thank you so much for this conversation. You're very welcome. It's been my- absolute pleasure. Uh, uh, and I know we, we jigged a couple of things, but it's, you know, I, I can't, um, you know, share my gratitude to yourself, the fact that we've managed to, even with the other things that we've both got going on, that we've managed- Yeah to get this time together and, uh, have this wonderful conversation. And I, I just hope as far as your audience is concerned that, you know, someone just gets one little nugget from that. Hopefully loads. You know, hopefully you're gonna be like a squirrel and get all these different nuggets- and bury them for when you need them. Um, but I hope that is the case. Um, but like I say, it's been my absolute pleasure, and I can't thank you enough. Well, and I know that I've learned through the conversation myself, and it, it is always astounding to me to hear from the audience- things that I didn't even catch or didn't resonate for me, but resonated for them. So I know there are so many nuggets, and the beautiful thing is people get to decide what's best for them in their moment in time, like you say. And like we sh- I shared with you at the beginning before we started recording, these will stay in the internet sphere forever. They're not going away until all of YouTube blows up or podcasts are gone or whatever. So the reality is people could see this, we're s- we're recording this in 2026, somebody could see it in 2030 and go, "Ah, I need to find Dave." So in the show notes, we will have all the ways that you can find Dave as of this recording. And my other thing is I t- I will try, if people, um, all my guests give me updated information as it becomes available, beautiful thing, I can go into the show notes and add anything, remove anything. If a website changes, just give me the new one. So it's all, we try to keep ourselves current even though the conversation was a while ago. So Dave, thank you for being here. So appreciate you- Yeah your energy, your wealth, your knowledge, your wealth of knowledge, um, and everything that you bring into this world. We are a better universe because of your gifts and talents that you share every day. Thank you for being a listener. Thank you for being an observer. Thank you for showing the importance of tuning into and settling into and being aware of your values as a person. And when you come from the deep foundation of your value system, you will be fully aligned in no matter what hat you are wearing throughout the day. Before we close, I do want to share something gently and clearly. This November, I am hosting a live in-person experience called Ignite the Inner Uprising. It will be a two-day immersive gathering for women in midlife years who are feeling this quiet pull towards something more truthful, more embodied, more fully themselves. It's an extension of our conversations here. It's where reflection becomes embodiment and insight becomes integrated, and women who have held so much for others for so long get to gather and stand fully in their own sovereignty. So if something in this conversation stirred in you today, if your body started leaning in, that is not accidental. The wait list is now open. If Ignite feels like something your future self would thank you for, I invite you to add your name to the wait list, and the link will be in the show notes. As always, follow, share, like, leave a review so more women can find these incredible conversations. And do something for you, by you, because of you today so that you can thrive after 45