Love With Nowhere to Go with Tara Porter

Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Thrive After 45. I'm Denise Drinkwalter, midlife mirror and mentor, and every week, I am honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45. Together, we'll uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion. Because when one woman turns her light on, the rest of the room catches fire. What if grief was never something to get over, but something you were meant to learn how to carry? My guest today knows this territory from the inside. She has walked through her own profound losses, spent years in therapy and healing work, and along the way became curious about what grief actually is. Not something to fix or move past, but something that lives in the body and asks to be honored. That curiosity became her calling, and she is a certified grief coach, formally doing this work since the start of 2026. Through her real education began long before that in the rooms and retreats where she sits with people at their most vulnerable. No pressure to explain their grief, minimize it, or move on from it. Just space to feel it. Through her Instagram platform and community, On Fridays We Dance, she's touched thousands of lives, and in May, held her first grief retreat, 14 women in a room together, and what she witnessed there changed her, too She helps women understand that grief is not the enemy, that our bodies often know before our minds do that tension, exhaustion, a heaviness in your chest, these are all signals worth listening to, and that grief and joy were never meant to be opposites. Because you don't have to wait until you're done grieving to laugh again, to dance, and to feel alive. It is an honor and a privilege to welcome Tara Porter to our show today, and I cannot wait for this conversation. Thank you for being here, Tara. Oh, thank you for having me, Denise. Oh my gosh. I know this is a very heavy topic, but does it have to be a heavy topic? People talk about grief and it's like, "Yeah, let's not talk about that." Well, and that's where it's, it's become the normalize it, like normalizing it. Mm. As I was, you know, very, you know, in a silly way, cheeky way, just having some fun Friday dances, it became a way to, here I am having fun, I'm laughing, I'm doing things, but I do also carry this ache in my heart every single day. And it's an opportunity to just talk about it. And so many people started reaching out via text message or a DM, like, "Oh my gosh, thank you for normalizing or saying the things. You're making me feel so normal in my own journey." Um, because people are uncomfortable with grief. Yeah. Like, they don't wanna talk about it. They don't wanna make you feel uncomfortable. And I know in my own experience, I learned very quickly how to pretend I was okay because I didn't wanna make other people feel uncomfortable. Mm. And when you think about it, like how ridiculous is that? Would I say to you, Denise, "You know what? I'd really like to hang out with you today, but I don't want you to talk about your grief because- Mm-hmm it's making me uncomfortable, so can you just pretend you're cool?" Right. Mm. But we, we ask that- Yeah of ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's supposed to be done in private. But it's okay to, it's okay to cry. Mm-hmm. It's okay to express your feelings. It's okay to have a day where you're not actually okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we talk about it like that, it's okay to not be okay. Well, what does that really mean? What do you find, even in your retreat, what did you find was coming up for women to be able to share what they needed to share? Was allowing the tears to come out. Mm. And so many... Like, it was in our intros. And I was very- Oh like, I'm very, like, clear and very forthright. Like, if you do not wanna share- Yeah what you're he- like, who you're grieving, what you're here for, like, A, okay. Mm-hmm. Say who you are, and we welcome you here, because I understand that that is hard to talk about. Mm-hmm. Um, and for the most part, most people did share their why and who they were missing or what they felt they'd lost in themselves, because a lot of it, um, at the Grief Retreat, it was, um, finding yourself. Like, after- Mm-hmm when you've lost someone, you lose a part of yourself. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's coming back to yourself and finding, figuring out who you are. Like, this different... We're constantly evolving and changing. Mm-hmm. Um, we were married, you know, 20 years this June. I sure as hell am not the same wom- Yeah man that Sean married, um, you know, in 2006. Right. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Exactly. Great point. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, people, it would be, they would a- apologize, "Oh, gosh, I'm crying." I'm like, "Let 'em out. Let the tears out." Mm-hmm. They wanna be felt, and this is a safe, it's just a safe space to let them. Mm. So many times, I think, too, in grief, people just wanna have their grief witnessed. Mm. We don't have to make it better. Right. Don't have to fix it. Don't have to... Yeah. Like, the point is not to fix it. Yeah. Yeah. But it's to know that you deserve to let those tears go, because you don't need to keep them inside. Mm-hmm. You don't need to keep them in for me. Mm-hmm. What happens when we do keep them inside and don't let them out? I know for myself I've learned to listen to my body enough that, like, pain. Mm. Like, discomfort in our bo- like, our body, I mean, our bodies know things before our minds often do. Mm-hmm. Think of a moment when you're feeling, I'm not necessarily, it's not necessarily grief, but something that's making you feel like you could cry and you're trying to hold it back. Mm-hmm. And where do you feel it in your body? Your throat. You're, you're pointing- Right, the- right at it. For those who are listening- The, the- and not... Yeah. The lump in your throat, right? Or even, um, I've been volunteering once a month, um, for our grief support group through Jessica's House Hospice in Exeter. Okay. And so w- it was a really cool little visual that, that was in the book, the, the head facilitator had printed out for us, but it was this, it was like a rollercoaster and all the feelings- Mm that you can feel in grief. So there was, you know, peace. Um, there was anxi- like anxiety, and I said- Mm "Are any of you in your grieving journey feeling anxiety?" And they're like, "Oh, God, yeah." Mm-hmm. I said, "Where are you feeling that?" They're like, "The f- the flutter in the, the chest, like the rapid heart rate." And it's just to be able to, I'm not gonna say catch yourself, but notice- Ah when you're feeling that. Like again, it's noticing. Right. But then it's like, okay, I'm noticing, um, this rapid heart rate. I'm noticing this fluttering. I'm noticing this discomfort. And I'm, and I mean, I'm notorious for getting in it too and going like, "Oh, I have to get rid of it. I have to... Like, this isn't, I gotta go." But it's- Right okay, how can we support ourselves in this? And it's like, let's get our feet. Like, I visualize, like, tree roots- Okay, mm-hmm coming out of my feet into the ground. Mm. Like just grounding myself. Mm-hmm. And then can I just slow my breath down and take a deep belly- Mm-hmm breath? Mm-hmm. And all of a sudden that rapid heart rate is just like, okay. Mm-hmm. I'm not being chased by a lion. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I just have to make a hard decision, and making hard decisions right now are really difficult. Mm. So when you go to calming it, then you go into your thought process? Is that what you do? How do you- Just like sometimes I'm just like, okay, what do I... Like why is, what is this surfacing? Right. What is actually happening? Mm-hmm. I have to, you know, I have to call the bank and I have to deal with- Mm this. Right. Just some of the- Some of the post-death- Mm-hmm paperwork that you have to deal with. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Or I have to call this person back, and I don't know that I feel like calling them back right now. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it's just, and what do I need? Like, how can I, how can I comfort myself in this moment where I feel like I really just want a hug from- Yep my loved one that I don't have here right now? Yeah. How can I give that to myself? Right. Okay. Yeah. We all experience grief. Yeah. How do we... And this might not be the right word, so help me figure out the right word. Okay, we can talk it through. I might help- Right? I might be able to help with more words too. How do we deal with a variety of grief that hits us f- for different reasons? Because we can grieve a loss in a person, but we can also grieve, we're talking to women in mid-life years, we can also grieve, uh, loss of our identity. Let's say children have moved away. Uh, right? I'm in the middle of I knew this was happening, but I thought I was prepared, but this, I feel like I'm going through the same thing I did when I lost this person, right? Like, how do we, do we manage it this... And manage is probably not the right word. Do we let it come through the same way? What do we need to do to help us along the path of grieving? So, um, funny you'd bring this one up, which it's so prevalent right- I mean, my oldest son, he's doing, um, an electrical apprenticeship, so he's not gone off to school. But when he spends more time at his girlfriend's, like, I'm like, "Oh, I really miss him." Mm. And then it's my youngest is, you know, he's heading into grade 10, so we're not in the stage of wanting to cuddle with mom on the couch anymore. Yeah. So I do find sometimes it's like I really miss my little boys. Mm. Mm-hmm. Um, and then sometimes I almost find myself getting, like, angry isn't the right word, but- Yeah kind of a l- you know, a little bit. Yeah, frustrated. Like- Yeah. Thank you disappointed. Frus- Yep, yep. And I'm like, r- right, they're not meant to stay under my wings the whole time. They're meant to fly. But it's like, again, we're, we're losing a huge part of our identity when these kids are- Yeah flying the coop a little bit, right? Yeah, yeah. Which is exactly what they're supposed to goo. Goo. Right. Do. Um. Yeah. So that's the moment where allow yourself the tears. Mm-hmm. But then that's where it's like, okay, what do I need to do to find me again? I'm a new version of me. What are some things that interest me now? What are some things I can do for myself? Mm-hmm. And not just keeping ourselves busy all the time so we don't allow ourselves to feel it. Thank you for sharing that extension. That is huge. Yes. Very huge. Yeah. Because we- Because we do that Oh, busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, busy Yeah. Yep. The busy badge is so big and shiny, right? Right? Mm-hmm. But I'm even, like, I... We have a... I have a dog. We have a dog. I... She- Yeah gets me up in the morning. We go for our walk, and she's- Mm-hmm you know, my evening, and I always used to slap my earbuds in and throw on a podcast, and now I'm being much more... Well, my, my earpo- pods died. Um, so I need new ones. But even before that, I was getting much more intentional of, you know what, I need to just- Yeah go out and, like, not have... Yeah. That's still busyness. Yes. Let myself be in nature. Mm. Let myself be with my thoughts, and let myself- Mm-hmm notice the birds that are chirping. Mm-hmm. The... In the spring, you know, the flowers that are- Yeah blooming or- Yeah the... Right now, I mean, it's... We're August, right? Yeah. Like, how green the grass still is when we get a good rain. Right. Yeah. Pretty flowers that are coming up all different times in the gardens. Like, I find- Mm-hmm I notice those things more, and I have... I- is that an over 45 type of thing, that all of a sudden I am noticing nature and birds more? But it's taking the time to- Nature is good for the soul. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You mentioned earlier about the tree roots, right? Yeah. Yeah, really connecting back, 'cause really nature is home for us- Yes when we spend the time in it. Yeah. And like you say, I... Now, I b- you know, there are times to listen to podcasts, so don't stop listening to podcasts, folks. But when you listen to podcasts- No, at least when I'm working or when I'm driving. There you go. Driving. Let's not not- Yes listen to the podcasts. Like, come on. But I love what you're saying in terms of, um, I believe it was Jack Canfield in one of his Soup for the Souls talked about when you're in the room, be in the room. So when you are outside on your walk, be there. Don't let yourself go to all the lists of things you have to do. And if you notice you're doing that, bring yourself back to center and, like Tara said, listen. Listen. What's going on? Are there birds? Is there wa- what are you hearing? And really focus in only on one thing, if it helps to get you focused, right? Because- Well, and it's even in meditation, it's like just- Mm 'cause you're- Yeah you're gonna squirrel off, but it's like, okay, come back to the breath. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And honestly, in coming back to myself, meditation was one of the first things I started doing. Mm, mm-hmm. Um, and realizing how not grounded I was. So for me, the visualization of the tree roots out of my feet is what helps me- Right get there. That might not work for someone else. Yeah, of course. But it's- Yeah it's finding what works for- Yeah yeah. Finding what works for you. And, and- Yeah playing with it, right? Yeah. But it's figuring out what's my new role now that my role isn't... I mean, we're always a mom. That doesn't go away, but- Mm-hmm our kids don't need us in the same capacity that they used to, and that is a huge grieving process to go through. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, is there a finish line in grieving? No. Never. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 'Cause I don't think... Lo- the- we've always... It's love with nowhere to go. Mm-hmm. Right? We just, we miss them. And it's, as time goes on, it hits differently, but- Mm-hmm um, I still always... Like, in the beginning it's just, it's, you can literally feel like your heart's broken. Yeah. Yeah. It's so deep and raw. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't find it as deep and raw anymore, but I do- Mm find the moment sometimes it's like, it's like a leg sweep. Right. Right. When I'm not catching them, or even the moments, um- Like getting ready for the first grief retreat back in May. Yep. Um, driving to the retreat location, I sat in my car, and I have a mentor that she said, "Talk to your angels. Like talk to them." Mm. "Talk to them like they're in the car." Mm-hmm. They're s- they, they will give you messages back and- Right whatever way. So I was l- having a huge cry, and I'm like, "Oh, Mom," like, I really... You're the one person I just want to be here to hug, and I know that you're just cheering me on so much, but it's also like- Yeah you are pretty much the big reason why I am- Right doing this. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So tell us a little bit about your story that you're comfortable doing, sharing with us. Yeah. How you got here. So, um, when my oldest son was about two weeks old or so, so he's gonna be 19 in a few weeks, um, my mom was diagnosed with a treatable but not curable type of cancer. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, so there, you know, that's a process to go through. Mm-hmm. And I think of the, even the waves of how that would hit when the realization... And I've always been the type of person to wear my heart on my sleeve, so there was a lot- Yep of really ugly crying. Mm-hmm. Yeah. My maternity leave, and- Sure I was so incredibly grateful that I was actually on maternity leave- Mm that I could- tood on over to her house and the, with the baby stroller and we could go hang out. And she's like- Mm "You don't have to be here every day." I said, "Mom, don't for one second think I'm here for you. I'm here just as much for me," I said, "because there's no point in us-" Yeah "sitting at our separate houses crying when we can be together and I can spend time with you." Yeah. And I'll- Yeah cherish that time, that extra time I did get to spend with her. Mm-hmm. Um- Yeah. Yeah, because if she was working, I wouldn't have been able to hang out with her that much. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Um, but then, um, two years after that, um, when I was about probably 18 weeks along in my pregnancy, found out there were issues with the baby, so I was started being seen by the high risk department in London. Mm-hmm. And on December 28th, we had to do an emergency C-section to deliver the baby, and she died at birth. Mm. Um, she had, after an autopsy and, um, getting those results back, she had what was called Noonan syndrome, so it was issues with her lung and her hearts, and she was definitely at the very far end of it. Mm-hmm. Um, but she had filled up with fluid and had stopped moving. Oh. So her heart rate was still going, but- Mm she was basically saving up all of her energy just to breathe. Um, so that was beyond devastating, and I can remember- Mm thinking that I've done something... What have I done in my life- Wow to be punished like this? Yeah. And then, um, a year later on Christmas Day is when Mom lost her battle to cancer. So it was just those two, like losing Harper- Yeah and, you know, you're not even really fully dealing with it, but I'm just, you know, 'cause at the time I still had a two-year-old at home, and- Yeah thank heavens I did, 'cause he was, again, what got me out of bed every day. Um- Mm. Mm-hmm but then I'm, you know, I'm swept away by this, my mom who, thank heavens, she was quite healthy for her, the type of cancer she had when Harper was born- Mm-hmm um, that she could take care of me. Mm. Um- Yeah And just kind of be that guiding light. And I can remember her saying, it was a, w- I had a few months off of, four months off of work, I guess. Mm-hmm. Um, so it, it would have been in that time. And she said, "You know, I hope you can find a way to celebrate Harper's birthday when it comes around." And I remember snapping at her thinking, "Well, what is there to celebrate? There i- she's not here." Yeah. But that's exactly what we started doing- Mm was having a birthday cake, still having a celebration for her. Um- Mm and it was even more important that we did do that because mom wasn't around. Yeah. Yeah, it was those two... I mean, it would be one thing just to have one- Mm-hmm or the other, but it was the, the two of them- Yeah so close together that- Mm-hmm for me, I didn't really deal with my grief. Right. I shoved it down. And I was pregnant with our youngest son at the time, so it was like, "Well, you have to keep going and-" Yeah, yeah do all the things. And again- Yeah make it feel better. And I can... My grandma ended up moving into a retirement home in that, you know, shortly after that, and went to visit her. I was getting closer- Mm-hmm to the end of my pregnancy, and- Mm-hmm she said, "Oh, you finally look like you have life in your eyes." I said, "What do you mean?" She goes, "I've been really worried about you. Um- Mm I can... Your, just your eyes. I just see it so much in your eyes." Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, they, what do they say? The eyes are the window to the soul. To the soul, yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So from there, when did you start getting, "You know what? This, this is important to help myself and help other people." How did you get into the- So I probably got to... It was probably about around year six or seven in my grief- Yeah journey where I just had... I was like, "I don't even know who the hell I am anymore." Mm. Like, I had completely... I had lost my identity. Yeah. Um, and that was when I was like, "Okay, I need to start..." And I had done some therapy and, you know- Yep in there. Right. Different ones. But I had started going, um, that's when I had started going to a meditation, like, mindfulness consultant. Okay. Um- Yeah and he taught me how to... You know, they were guided meditations, body scans, um- Yep but what we started was a gratitude practice in the morning, and it was literally three minutes. And he's like- Yeah "Don't go for profound." Yeah. Like, is it a hug? Is it a smile from a friend? So that became... That gratitude practice became almost like a, a lifeline of- Yeah hope. Yeah. Right when you're still so sad. Yep. And of course I had laughed, of course I had found joy. Of- Like- Yeah my, my... What I talk about all the time is grief and joy can coexist at the same time. Like, my kids were my joy, and there were other joys in my life. But to find gratitude in the simple things in life, it's like, okay. Mm-hmm. And it was like slowly started- Yeah making headway with that. I started also, um, going for Reiki treatments, which- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm moving that energy. Like, my heart chakra was so blocked and locked- Yeah um, that I can remember the first... one of the first treatments I'd had, said, "Oh, did you... Was there a chak-..." And I didn't really understand chakras a, a whole lot at this point. But I said, "Was there a chakra in my lower back that was locked? Because my lower back has been really sore, and it feels so good." She goes, "No, but because your heart was like all-" The energy wouldn't have been able to move up, so everything just would stay- Yeah squeezing tight. Yeah. Um, you know, different exercise things. Mm-hmm. But I really got, in the last, I don't know how many years, really got into yoga. Mm-hmm. That for me is just that- Mm-hmm body, mind, spirit, um- Right. Yeah doing that, and then it was just a couple years ago randomly starting doing the On Fridays We Dance- Right where I started talking about it, and it was through having these side conversations more. I was like, I would kind of giggle at first, and it would've been around this time two years ago. I was like, "Okay, this sounds ridiculous to say. I'm 46 years old, and I'm feeling called that there is something more for me coming out of these little dances that I'm posting on Instagram." Yep. And I had a really good friend say, "Don't discount it. It's gonna-" Yeah "continue to be your calling." And it was about a year ago where I kind of said, and this was in a therapy session, I said- Mm-hmm "I think I want to be a grief coach." She was like, "You'd be a great one." Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So started taking some steps towards- Yeah doing that, and, um, wrote a chapter f- in a collaborative book, a- Yep book about a very condensed version of my grief journey. Um- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then just been putting myself out there a little bit more. Nice. Nice. Yeah. And is it surprising, um, to, is there anything in it that's been surprising for you in a good way? How much it's helping me heal my own- Mm self all the time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I can be really great at micromanaging my grief too. Um, being like, "Oh-" Mm-hmm "we're gonna tuck you aside here." But what I've also learned in that, in- Yeah when I do that, we're gonna tuck you aside. Yeah. My body says, "Mm, uh, no we're not." "You're gonna get sick then if you're not gonna deal with it." And so- Mm-hmm then I'm parked. Yep. Yeah. And I am typically for me it's, like, very, like, in my chest, very bronchial. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Very lungs, grief, like when you- Yep look at Chinese medicine, that's- Mm where she goes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um- I, I don't even know how to describe it, but just there has been It's been profound- Mm being able, and a privilege- Mm-hmm for people to feel the safety to share their stories with me. Mm-hmm. Um, to have the conversations, um, at the, the grief retreat, um, for the people to allow themselves to be that vulnerable and- Yeah take it in and- Yeah you know, there was an, um, someone there that had said, "I was never taught to grieve. We were never allowed to." Yeah. "I've never grieved anyone, and this feels so good to cry." Yeah, yeah. Just to allow it and not make it wrong. Mm-hmm. And- And then we ended the day with a little dancing, and man- Of course the smiles on everybody's faces were magical. Of course. Right? Yeah. It was magical. Which, which is exactly what you practice. Yeah. You have grief and joy. We are not able to separate, and when you try to separate that out, you're doing a disservice to yourself. Mm-hmm. And others. Well, bingo, right? 100%. Yeah. Yeah, it's been really, um... I just, I have such a full heart- Mm for being able to do and have these conversations with people like you and talk about it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, and it doesn't need to be some- a t- a taboo. It doesn't. And, and when we do have people like yourself in the world who are doing the support to show people, and you have lived experience, so you're not coming at it from a textbook, you're coming at it from real life, plus the ability that you have as a human being to be able to give time and space and support for such You know, I've always believed that things happen for a reason, and you were meant to be on this journey, as hard as it has been. Yeah. You were chosen because they knew the capacity that you had that you didn't realize that you had. And I'm so grateful that you're doing you, and I love your Fridays We Dance. I have to say, I'm like, "Oh, it's Friday. I gotta find Tara." Where is she now? What's she doing? She's pulling the hockey team in. Are you kidding me? The hockey moms. Oh, I've seen them, honey. Oh, yeah. Oh. I love it. There's been a, there's a few times that if it would be at, like, baseball or something a couple summers ago. Yeah. The one, "So Tara, uh, what's tomorrow on, uh- what are you doing?" I'm like, "Guys, part of the fun is that it's a surprise." Yeah. "I'm not telling anybody what we're dancing to." So now it's kind of the, "What will she come up now?" Right? I have to say, your creativity is incredible. I love it. Good for you. That's where, honestly, a lot of that has come from, when I'm having those quiet moments and- Uh-huh it just hits. Yeah. When I try to force something- it doesn't work. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think that's true for all of us. Some of us are still in the learning phases of that and understanding the depth of that. Yeah. But, um, yeah. Yeah. What would you say to a woman who is afraid that if she starts feeling joy again, it might mean that she's forgetting? Oh. You'll never forget them. Mm. They're always... They are a part of your heart, but I know a lot of women- Yeah um, especially women that have lost, well, not even just children, but even a spouse. Mm-hmm. Um, they feel guilty when they start to feel joy again. And I hate when people s- 'cause I hate the saying. I remember people saying, "Well, she wouldn't want you to be sad. Your mom wouldn't want you to be sad." And it's like, that's, like, ick to me. Mm-hmm. But- What I think helped me out personally was, again, I'm gonna go to the example of my mom died Christmas Day. Mm. I'm like, "How am I ever gonna be able to do Christmas?" Right. And then I was also like, if I didn't do Christmas for my kid and make that a fun and joyous occasion for my own kids like she made for me, she'll come down here and she will The wagging finger will come out. Mm. And she will smack my arse. Yeah. Right? So it's like- Yeah when you can And sometimes it's you're just trying to put one foot in front of the other to do it. Yeah. But life is meant to be lived. Yeah. It is meant to be felt. Mm-hmm. And not all the feelings are always going to be positive ones. Right, yes. But it's to allow them all. It's- Yeah it's the rollercoaster, right? Mm-hmm. Everything is an ebb and flow. Yeah. The highs aren't always gonna be high. The lows aren't always gonna be low. But when we can allow ourselves to lean into all of it, it's- Yeah pretty magical what we can feel. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 'Cause they'll, they'll always be in your heart. You're always going to love them. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Always a part. The ache sometimes is immense, but- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Is there anything that you would love to share with our community before we close our conversation tonight that we haven't touched on? Any extra words of wisdom, anything that's coming through for you that you would like to make sure the audience hears from you tonight? I think one thing for anybody, if you know anybody that's grieving or that has recently lost someone- Mm-hmm don't hesitate to reach out and just say, "Hey, I'm thinking of you." It doesn't need to be anything profound. Mm-hmm. But sometimes just to know that people are thinking of you means the world. Mm-hmm. That you, "Oh, I'm not alone." Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Just the, it's the simple things. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's, it's about them, it's not about you, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think one of the things that I heard throughout our conversation tonight was the value of doing your journey, joy, grief, and all the emotions in between. Doing them for you, by you, because of you. Not because it's the way you were told to or the way that you have been, you know, maybe raised to think or s- "No, we don't do that," or whatever it is. Mm. Um, the whole foundation of our show is about for you, by you, because of you. So thank you so much for taking the time to share your journey, your wisdom, your experiences, and your gift of giving back and supporting and showing women in particular how to be okay, 'cause you will be okay. And they will always be in your heart. They will always be there, right? Yeah. Hmm. Thank- Thank you so much for having me on here, Denise. Oh. This has been a lovely conversation. Privilege. Privilege. Um, we'll have you back. I know we will. Sounds great. Thank you so much. And They are in the show notes, as well all of the information that we can share around Tara and what she has available and how to contact her and find her. And Fridays We Dance, and, and everything else that she has, um, for her community. So make sure that you continue to honor yourself through your journey of grief and beyond. And make sure that you continue to thrive after 45. Thank you again, Tara.