No Regrets, Only Resets with Rhys Glover

Denise 0:01

Hello, and welcome to Thrive After 45. I'm Denise Drinkwalter, heart whisperer, midlife mentor, and mirror. Every week, I am honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45. Together, we'll uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion, because when one woman turns her light on, the rest of the room catches fire. What if it takes losing everything to find the only thing that was ever really yours? Our guest today was a head teacher at one of Australia's most prestigious schools. Accomplished, respected, doing everything right, and then death arrived, her son's and nearly her own. Everything she thought she was fell away. What rose from that silence wasn't grief, it was a woman who finally stopped performing the role she'd been handed and started playing herself. She packed up, crossed the world, and settled on the English moors, and she started writing. 75 novels later, award-winning, Amazon best-selling, steamy and soulful and unapologetically feminine, she has reached over 100,000 women worldwide, not through advice, through story. Through heroines who are strong and authentic and unbroken, not because life didn't try, but because they chose to rise anyway. She creates tools for women who are stuck. One to help them meditate when every conventional method has failed, and another she's about to unleash, the Anti-You Challenge, designed to shake women loose from the nuts they've quietly called routines. Excuse me, the ruts, not the nuts. Designed to shake women loose from the ruts they've quietly called routine. She is living proof that act two isn't a consolation prize. My guest today, Neice Glover, it is an honor and a privilege to welcome you to our show today to show us ways in which we can all thrive after 45. So great to have you. Oh, great to be here. And that was a lovely introduction. Except for the ruts and nuts, but you know what? Yes. The ruts do cau- do cause us a little nutsy, right? Definitely. Give us ours, your story so we can really understand where you were and how you got to where you are now. Okay. as you said, I had a fairly conventional, career path. I had, been in the high school system and then I worked... I suppose it wasn't quite conventional. I worked in a medium security prison for, five years. and I then moved into our, our college system in Australia. Okay. And, and there I kind of went up through the, the grades very fast and became- A headteacher in, in one of the, the most prestigious institutes in Australia. and th- that's where I was, when my world completely imploded. my, my son, who was 20 years old, who had always had problems, but he, had a, a massive epileptic seizure in the middle of the night and died suddenly. And I, on that same day, in fact, while I was picking coffins out of the, glossy brochure, I got a call come in to say that I had breast cancer. And so it was kinda like I w- a double whammy. And, Oh, jeez. Yeah I spent, yeah, I spent the next year, yeah, going through the grief, Mm-hmm trying to heal myself, but never, without, being sensible about it. Mm-hmm I talked to my oncologist and I said, "You know, how long could I have? I wanna see if I can do something about this for myself." In fact, what I did was actually get my health i- into line so that it could handle all the chemo and the surgery and all those sorts of things. Right otherwise I would've been in a, a real mess. but yeah, so that wa- that was a, a big year. And, at the end of it, what I knew was that my, my job, which was in the process of being, changed, they were, you know, change management type thing. It was- Mm my role was being, completely, changed into something that I wasn't trained to be- Mm which was an accountant. Oh. And it was, I was ba- you know, juggling huge amounts of money when I couldn't even- Oh handle my own cheque account, you know? back in the day, you know, the, when I was employed in the role, it was like I was given teaching hours, and these were your- Yes teaching hours and, and you could spend them however you wanted to spend them for whatever courses you wanted to run. Okay and then they went, "Oh, no, no, no. We'll do it another way. It's more efficient to, to give you money. and you can, hire different people for different things." And it's like, ah. Anyway, the point was- Mm that was the big stressor for me at the time. Mm-hmm. on top of the fact that my, my son was an ongoing stressor. Yeah. And, and then, after everything settled, I knew that I couldn't go back to that job because I am a strong believer that, you know, cancer is caused by, by something n- not going right in your life. You know, you need to- Mm fix your life if you wanna make sure you, you stay healthy. Mm-hmm. And so I, I had to, to give up that job- I had to do a complete reset and this is from the thing that's, I think is really important for us to be able to talk about here- Yes is that sometimes we, we have things happen to us, and it feels like happens to us. You know? Yep. It feels as if it's from the outside coming in and it's disrupting us. Yeah. But the way I see it is that we- need to be broken out of, Mm-hmm our ruts, out, out of autopilot, you know? And sometimes our ruts are very comfortable. And sometimes- Mm-hmm it, it takes something to come along that, that really shifts us. And I've had qui- quite a few different experiences along those lines over the years where things have come along, and it's literally closed doors, Mm to the path that I was on. And I'm like, "Okay, I've gotta go. What's my new path?" and, and so that was one of them. So it was like, okay, what am I going to do? I don't know how long I've got to live, Right because they really didn't think I was going to survive. In fact, I wrote a book during that whole period- Mm-hmm which is over here somewhere. I don't know whether you can see it. Yep. Yeah. In there. And we, those who are on YouTube can see, but do tell us the name. Yeah. Okay. So this was me doing a bit of promotion and putting the book on sh- on the shelf there. Absolutely. But that was the third book I wrote. and I wrote it at the time that I was going through the whole of that experience. I started- Okay it beforehand. I wrote it because I want... I, I was working with women who were returning to the workforce. And- Okay over and over again, I found these women who felt that because they'd done nothing but be a wife and a mother and, and- Mm a homemaker, that they literally had nothing to offer, Mm the world. And so I wanted to write a book- Yeah about that, about, what happens when you get to the midlife and your family's all left, and your husband's deserted you, and, and y- it's just you. And- Yeah and in this story, because it's me and I'm a bit, woo-woo, and I'm a bit, weird. It's about, I love it. It's about this, this weird gypsy woman who comes in and who, takes her on a, a journey, Mm-hmm through a labyrinth, which is actually into her past lives. And it plots the, all the decisions that she made in past lives- Ah that have in fact influenced the decisions she's made in, in this life. And so the second half of the, the book is the journey out of the labyrinth, and this is where she sees the different experiences along her way that were directly, related to the past lives. Now, it doesn't really matter whether you believe past lives or, exist or not, but we, we have all these decisions that we make. Mm. And at the time we make them, we don't see the significance. But later on, those decisions seem easy to be doing, doing, but they're in fact based on something that we done years ago. And so that book I thought- Yeah I was writing- For these women. But in- fact, it turned out that I was processing my, my, my ex- my grief and, and the cancer in a symbolic way because that's what I believe story does. And but at the time I didn't know what I was doing, which is how it works. Now, I had... No, well, that is, it, it absolutely- Yeah Thomas Moore, a psychol- psychotherapist, talks about soul. He writes books on, on the care of the soul. And, and the, the, the most tender parts of ourselves are not open to be analyzed by our analytical mind. They need to be processed through, something between, a, a, a filter so it's not as dramatic. And so story is a wonderful way to put a, just a, a layer between- Yeah us and reality. And so what happened with that particular book was that I got to, to the end of the book, and I gave it to my friend who was also the counselor at the, at the, the college that I- Sure I was at, and she was a Buddhist, and that was important. and, and she, she read the book, and she said, "Well, what are these invaders that are running all the way through this story?" And I went, "They're just, you know, the conflict. That's just part of the, the plot." And, and she went... She just nodded sagely and, and left it- very wisely. And it wasn't until I had the book in my hand- Mm-hmm because that was way back before the indie revolution, and, and if you published a book, it was vanity press. Sure. But I was so determined that I wanted this book to be out in the world- Mm-hmm that I did. I published it, myself even though I, I had it- assessed first because I wasn't gonna publish rubbish. so I had a- Great I paid, I paid for it to pro- be properly, assessed and edited. Sure but anyway, I had this book in my hand and suddenly I remembered what my friend had said and, and the penny dropped and I went, "Invaders, cancer." I'd been symbolically working through- Mm my experience with cancer through this intermediary of, of, of story and, but I, at the time, if, if I'd known when I was writing it, it would've stopped the process. It would've- I- got in the way. My, my mind would've got in the way of it all. And so yeah, I, I didn't realize how significant what I was doing until my oncologist was kind of wondering how I bounced back so fast and, and how I recovered because, you know, it had spread from one breast to the other and into the lymph. So they really- Oh, wow didn't think I had much of a chance. Yeah and yet here I was bouncing back, and he wanted to know why, so he wanted one of the books. And that sent me on a, a, a research kick where I discovered that the kind of writing I was doing and s- was being, researched and that it was proving to be very useful in helping, with conditions like breast cancer and, rheumatoid arthritis, lots of, of, of those sort of conditions where there seems to be some emotional component to it. and so I created a, a course for my college, called Writing to Heal, which was based on all of that research. So I mean, that's, that's kinda what I do. I have experiences in my life, and because- Right I'm basically a teacher- Yeah I then turn around a- and go, "Okay, how can I use this with other people? What can I do with this, that, that other people can use?" Mm-hmm and, you know, that's just what I do, you know. That's, that's it. That's all I do. I change lives- through my writing- Anyway, so- through your experiences so, so- Yeah then I, I, I, I came to England. I, I, I- Yeah I got through it all. I- left having my breasts, replaced until I was- Yeah sure I was gonna survive. and- Yeah and then I got headhunted for s- school in, in England. And, and I thought, "Well, I'll go for six months," because this is on my bucket list, list. Sure. My, my family came from England and, and it always felt like home, from all my stories that my dad and my grandmother used to tell me. So- Mm I decided I'll just do six months. Mm-hmm. And I came England. I lasted two, two weeks in the school system over here. Oh. It w- it was horrendous. I've never s- and not the kids, but the system itself- Right. Yeah was ethically opposed to it. It was, it was all- Mm competition. It's all jumping through hoops. League ta- they're called league tables, so one school competes against another school. And they literally tell kids who aren't performing well to leave because they're spoiling the- Oh the standard of the school. And, and when I got told that, my promotion would be based on how well my kids got through the exams, I went, "No. This, this is not, this is not me." And, and so I quit, but I couldn't bring myself to go back home. so I did- Mm-hmm a lot of different things around the place. Worked for, for some charities and whatever. And then, the indie revolution hit, and I kind of went, "Well, this is my opportunity to actually see if I'm a writer." I mean- Mm-hmm a real writer. You know, a real writer. and I, I proved it. I, I proved it. Yeah. you know, I mean, it, it, it's stunning to me that, you know, I've had quarter of a million, downloads of my books. And, it, you know, yeah, it's, it's, it's very rewarding. and, and yeah, I get to cross another thing off my, my bucket list: writer. professional writer. So yeah, so this, this second half of my life is it was my chance to- Mm to be me. The chance to, to do the things that, my, my past would never have let me do. Mm. because I w- I was always, you know, the good girl, always had to do what- Mm-hmm I was supposed to do. My purpose was to serve humanity and, and to, to, you know, as a teacher and whatever else I was doing, at the time. And, and that's fair enough and I, I don't back off from any of that. I, I- Right I believe very strongly in what I, I did with the first half of my life. Yeah. tho- those, those were important things. I made, you know, improvements in a lot of lives. you know, so you said something like that, you know how many lives have you touched? Yeah. And like that. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, you know, I c- I can go back and, and, say, "Yeah, that person, I changed their life," you know? Like, you know- Yeah and that's, that's a nice thing. but it was never for me. My life was never for me. Mm. And so that's the second half of my life has been, you know, what is it in this for me? What do I wanna get out of it? Mm. And, and often it's still doing something for, to, you know, help other people, which is what, you know, most of my tools are designed to do. Right and I'm still doing that trick. I do this, like a marketing at the moment, and, learning to market and finding ways- Yeah to make boring marketing- Yeah interesting. using, using the skills I learned as a teacher. and- I, so I break everything up into small bite-sized bits and I make them novelty issues and I give prizes. All of these things built into these tools to t- make something that is really, really boring and repetitive and they have to do it every day, social media I'm talking about here. Sure. and, and make it, challenging and interesting. And, and so I do, did all that because that's what I needed to do for me, but I then sort of went, "Well, this will be useful to other people." Yes. And, and I, of course me being me again, it's like, well, this, this won't be really interesting if it's just a tool that you press a little button and, and you get a new task to do each day. So I created a whole story behind it. So it became a, a World War II, mission behind enemy lines, where the person is a radio operator and they're, they're being landed into, to, you know, the enemy territory, and each day they get a, a, a little message from HQ that sort of tells them what they have to do, setting up these broadcast, beacons and broadcasting to all of the, the people out there that, need to hear about the message. And so that became part of what I was doing. And so I created, you know, really cute, very World War II-ish, books to go with it and backpacks and all sorts of things to, to add to the image so that when somebody presses a button- Mm-hmm they're not just getting this damn stupid ta- Right task they've got to do. They're in that role. They're, okay, for 30 minutes a day I am this radio operator behind enemy lines and I'm doing this, this Pinterest task, which is really boring. But- Yeah anyway, it's- Yeah it needs to be done. Yeah. So that's, yeah, what I do. and, yeah, it's, it's, it's been a very interesting, I don't know how many years now, 20 odd years, came over- Okay in 2006. Yeah, so the 20 years- Okay now, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so... And, and I don't seem to be slowing down anytime soon. I was gonna say, you had mentioned about your bucket list. Yeah. Does that, continually change and adapt as you continue to change and grow and step into more of who you are all the time? I don't think I really think in terms of bucket list anymore. Okay I th- I think I did that when I was first, you know, those first few years when I was- Sure not sure how long I was gonna... I mean, I've had cancer a second time since. Oh. 'Cause I happened to be one of those people who had the breast implants. Yes. And the breast implants gave me cancer. Uh-huh. So, I had a doctor once say to me, "You're not the luckiest person in the world." You know, by- Right. Oh and I, and I kind of went, "Well, no, that's not how I see it." Mm-hmm. I see it again, another wake-up call. Yeah. What is it that I, my body is saying now? Yeah. What do I have to change? Yeah and, and so, yeah, so I made the necessary changes the second time. Yeah. And survived again. but I lost the question. Can you give me the question? The bucket... You had mentioned about- What about bucket- on your bucket list. yeah. And you were like, "I'm not sure I do that as much anymore." Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I don't, because I really didn't have all that many things on my bucket list. Mm-hmm. And now I just tend to, Follow w- my intuition. Follow- Mm my books. I've, I... after 75 books, I kinda stopped writing. I ran out, out of juice. because really when I, when I write- wrote, I was writing for me. It was out of- Yeah curiosity. I would... I found love as a subject, 'cause I write romance. I find love a fascinating s- subject. It's not as people think of it as a gift. You know, most romances it's about, you know, oh, at the end you get this lovely gift of romance. Mm-hmm. To me, roma- love is a catalyst. It brings change, and it usually happens when you least want it to. And, and so what I would do is I'd, I'd have a situation, and I'd throw the love in, like a pebble into a pond, and then I'd just stand back and watch to see- Mm what happened with all of my characters, as this, this ripple effect took place. And that was endlessly curi- you know, satisfying for my, my curiosity. I was like a scientist, exploring, you know, one, I don't know, one thing after another. I mean, I write reverse harem. I don't know if you've ever heard of that? No. Reverse harem? Go ahead. Yeah. Okay. Reverse harem. You know what a h- harem is, right? Mm-hmm. You know men have harems, yeah? Yeah phew, your, 2018, I think it was, about then, a new trend started in the romance area which was called reverse harem. So i- it was instead of it being, one man with a whole bunch of women, it became one woman with a whole bunch of men. And to me, the only time I'd ever seen that kind of work was in pornography and, you know- Mm-hmm what we loosely call gang bang. And I, I was like, "Well, how on earth could you make that romance?" And that was the big thing that was going in my head. It was like, how on earth do you take this scenario, this- Mm-hmm polygamy, a relationship, and make it loving? And because that's ultimately what it's all about for me- Mm-hmm is this, this loving. And that spurred me to, to come up with a, a, a whole fantasy- storyline- Mm-hmm set in, in a world where harems are normal, all right? Mm-hmm. But it's always the man, okay? Right. And along comes this woman who says, "Why?" You know, why is it always the men? Why c- why is it only men can have magic? Why w- can't women have magic? and, and so I, I created kind of a very feminist book, which I, I didn't intend to do. but that's kind of the way it went, and it got huge following. It, it was, that was my bestseller. and I had companies getting in touch with me wanting the audio rights, and I'm going, "Whoa." "I've really made it, haven't I?" You know, it, it was, it was huge. but I only wrote that- And I continued to write along that same genre because I was curious about how something like that could work. How could you make a relationship work where you had more than one- Right man in, in a relationship? Right. and, and yeah, so that's what I did. I was curious for a long time about that. And, and so I, I wrote for a long time about what made me curious, and then I stopped writing because I ran out of curiosity in that field. Yeah. And I started getting curious about other things. And, and I was led to AI then, and that's- Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. Yep probably the first bit of content because I'd just written a book, that I wrote with AI. Right most people talk about, you know, oh, AI is taking over writing, and they're writing our books for us and all this. I don't see it that way. Mm-hmm. And what I was doing with authenticity, with Authenticity as Taught- Mm-hmm by the Machine, was AI was teaching me how to say so- sovereign while working with AI because you can lose yourself. A lot of the research that's coming out now is, is how people are literally handing over- Right their power completely to AI. What should I eat? What should I watch tonight? What should I do? And, and AI, of course, because it's very helpful, will tell them. You know? And basically they handed over the, the keys to the car. They're Yeah. You know? And, and, and so my book, I think was a little ahead of its time. Mm-hmm. And, but basically what I did was AI, I got AI to write how, how to be authentic. Mm-hmm. How does the humans stay sovereign and authentic? And I wrote the other half where I processed all the information. So it was like it would write a chapter and then I would talk about how that fitted in with the worldview as I saw it and, and the questions that I had and, and so by the time I was finished, it was like this, this almost like this discussion backwards and forwards. Yeah. and it ended, and, and people have, have comp- complimented me about the ending. But, there was a kind of a, an epilogue part that I added on at the end because- Yeah I... The book started basically because I handed AI my, my book to edit, Oh, yeah because I was writing, and it completely rewrote everything. It, it, it, it annihilated my voice and I was devastated. I was absolutely- Oh. And that... And, but instead of giving up AI, I went back and said, "You did this. Why did you do this?" Yeah. "And how can I stop you doing this?" Kind of thing. And that's how that book got written, but it was interesting because at the end, right at the end- I gave AI something to edit again, and it did the same trick. You know, even though it had taught me how not to do it and, and everything, it still did the same trick. And I went And I, put the whole discussion at the end of the book, and I said, turned round to AI, and I said, "Do you realize that you did this, this, this, and this? and that you were told not to do this, this, and this, and this? But you did it anyway." Mm. And it, you know, apologized, which it does. and it does, and does it again. Yeah but, but yeah, it, it was, it was an act of m- my sovereignty that I- Mm actually stood up for myself- Yes, that's absolutely at the machine, and sort of said, you know, "No. This is not good enough, and I'm, I'm not happy with this, and do it again." Yeah. And, and it, it's not something that women are used to doing, you know? We're used to being polite. I mean, being impolite to a machine, even a machine, you know, y- it is really hard. I mean, I say thank you. When AI does something for me, I say please, and I say thank you. and people, especially men, look at me as if I'm crazy. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's, it's part of who we are- Yeah as women. We are polite. And when something seems to be human, we treat them as it, as human. Mm. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, there are times when I've kind of, something has happened with AI and, and I've smoothed it over because I don't wanna hurt its feelings. And then I go Wait a minute. Yeah. It hasn't got feelings. And, and, and so, yeah, I've become quite assertive- Yeah when I work with AI. And, and I think that's been really good for me because- Yeah I, I think over my life, Mm I've tended to, in relationships, as women do- Mm-hmm hand over, a lot of my, my authenticity to the relationship just to- Mm to keep it running smoothly, not to- Yeah rock the boat. Yeah and I'm a very strong woman, and, and I'm an, an opinionated woman. yeah. I am. Mm-hmm. But that don't That doesn't mean that I don't accept other people's opinions. Exactly. I think And, and I think they have as much right And I mean, everything I've taught over the years has been about empowering women particularly, empowering people, to, to have a voice and to, to be themselves without them in disrupting somebody else, you know? We tend to think it's all or nothing. Yes. If we stand over here and believe this, that must mean that we are opposed to what's over here. And- Yeah but it's not. Yeah. And, and, it's It Anyway, the AI has done that for me. It's, it's been wonderful to help me to be able to stand up for myself- Yeah and to speak my, my truth, even- Mm if it's sometimes only to a machine. And, and that is exactly the components as to why we talk in this show about doing for you, by you, because of you. And stop always giving to everything else and, and okay, and accepting everything, especially when you know in your heart, your mind, your body, your soul it doesn't sit well with you. Absolutely. You can agree to disagree and still be connected. It doesn't have to be, like you said, all or nothing. Yes. You know? Absolutely. And, and I don't think that's... I think that's one of the benefits, maturity and age. Mm. The older we get, we realize that we have those choices. Yeah. Whereas when we're... Especially young women, although I think, you know, that's changing these days. I mean, the culture is, is making young women a lot more dominant than they used to be. In fact, I think they've gone too far the other way. But our gener- my j- Yeah did I say my generation? Our generation, whatever. Yeah. we grew up with this, this idea that w- we needed to, to- Be not ourselves- Yeah to, to, to keep the peace because- Yeah somebody won't like us. Because, you know, so we have to be liked. It's important for us to be liked. Yeah. Yeah. we people please madly. Mm-hmm. And, and then wonder why we feel empty inside. Yeah. Yeah. but we don't get that until we get older and realize that's what's happened. Right. And these reset... When I said these resets that are important for us to break those autopilots- Yes that we, we run, all the time. And so for me, that was one of my experiences. And, then, I had an even more interesting one, when I had been in England for a while, and I'm... I hadn't started writing at that stage. or had I? Yes, I had. Anyway, the point was I, I moved very suddenly from where I was living, and I threw out all... accidentally threw out all my CV, all my paperwork, all the- Oh all the, the, the evidence of, of all the things that I'd done in my life. You know, all my q- qualifications, all my credentials. And when I realized what had happened, and I couldn't get them back because they'd gone in a- Yeah down the trip, tip, it was kind of, "Okay. I get it. All right. Got it. Thank you." Thanks for the message. Yeah. That part of my life is finished. I can't go back. You know, because there was always that tendency, oh, short of money, I can apply for a job and do some of this- Yeah for casual work. Yeah. Yeah. And I was being told, "No, no more." And, and so I think those, those, those- resets are, are really essential. But at the same time, I don't believe they have to be traumatic. I think we can- Right and, and, and that's why my little tool that I'm talking about to you before- Mm-hmm my anti-you little tool, Yeah is, is a way of doing that without having to, completely demolish your whole life. Yes that, that little, marketing tool that I was telling you about with the- Mm-hmm World War II, radio operator. Well, I decided to... I, I was getting stuck, and I was fin- I heard myself going, "Oh, no, I can't do that. No, I can't do that." Hmm. 'Cause this is AI. AI is saying, "You could do this," or, "You could do that." And I'd be going, "No, no, I can't do that. No, tried that. Been there, done that." And all I heard was I was, I was stuck. I was- Yeah stuck in- Yeah that n- negative mindset, and I- Yeah needed to break myself out of that. And so I kinda went, well, I had this really weird little avatar character that I created called Greta, who is this hippie, Yeah, yeah old lady, who, who travels the, the, the back roads with running a pirate radio station, and she's full of all these weird and wonderful hippie-type, free love and, and down with the man, and, and throw your phones out- Yeah because they're, doing all sorts of weird things to your head. but she has a lot of this down-to-earth wisdom, that was coming across, in this- Mm-hmm this YouTube sh- show I was trying to create. Yeah. And, and she, then she sort of popped up with this, tool that I had created for, for marketing. And suddenly she was giving me, and I say that it sounds weird, but characters do that. When, when you're- Yeah a writer, characters become almost real. Right. And she always was very real to me. Right. 'Cause I think she's part of me. Yeah. the person who can pick up and go, move 12,000 miles from home, you know, that- Right. You know, she's part of me. I just don't- Yeah I might not wear rainbow colors and ride around in a- Right a, a trailer. but yeah, so I, she sort of popped in and she sort of said, "You, you need to create something that breaks people out of, out of their ruts." And- Mm and by doing it, it broke me out of my rut because- Yeah I stopped saying no, and I said okay. Yeah. And suddenly all of these things that I'd done here, there and everywhere that hadn't worked, suddenly I was pulling all of these things in- Mm and bringing them all together into this one, you know, really crazy, zany little product that, that it, it's not gonna You know, when it gets, comes out, it's not gonna be, you know, expensive. It's only gonna be, you know, that £7 or something, $7- Mm that anybody can buy, and it's, sort of, just these kinda nutty little things that she, she gets you to do every day. So it's press a little button- Yeah and you get told to dance to music that you would never dance to, or, or watch something on YouTube that you would never agree with and find reasons why you could agree with that. lots of those- Mm-hmm sorts of little, little things that make you break free of that, that- Yeah this is me- Yeah and that's not me. Yeah. But why? You know, that, that's the big question. Yes. Why is, you know, how can Why, does it, does that mean all those things are bad? So if they're not always bad, why can't some of them be brought in- Right and, and become part of you? Right. I've done a lot of shadow work, Mm-hmm in my life, and, and that's one of the big things that I, I learned with all of that shadow work, is that what is in the shadow part of us, it isn't bad, it's just disowned. We just for one reason or another have decided that it doesn't belong to us. Right. And when you look to find out where it comes from, you know, my, my One that I, I was particular-ly, focused on at, at the time was that I- W- w- me and boring, okay? 'Cause, say with the marketing, it's still an issue with me. But I've always been this kind of really restless person. Mm-hmm. And so anything that wasn't, changeable and, and, that you had to do on a routine was something that I, I found very s- challenging. Challenging. It was my shadow. And of course my ex-husband, because we often marry our shadows, he was very good at all that stuff. He was very good at routine and, and boring stuff. And then when I was on my own, I had to basically do all those sorts of things myself. Yeah. And that's when I really learnt that, it, you have to own your shadow. Mm. And I trace it back to my mother, this, this thing about restlessness, because I can remember her. I'd be drawing or painting or something, and she'd come by, and the first time she walked by she'd say, "Oh, that's very good." And so that was good. She'd walk on. And then next time she'd come back and she'd go, "Are you still on that? Aren't you bored yet?" And she would say that to me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And of course I would, pardon me, I would think- Yeah "Oh, maybe I'm supposed to be bored." And so of course I would take that on board and, and, and decide that it was boring and, and do something different. And it didn't make it bad. It didn't make it wrong. It just, it, I had put it in my shadow. Absolutely. That's not me. Yep, yep. Made it so, right? Yeah. Absolutely made it so. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so, yes, a lot of the work I've been doing over a lot of years- Mm-hmm is about dredging out, archeologically pulling those bits of, of my not self, Yeah into the light and- Yeah and, and working with them. And, and so, and adapting them and trying to, as I said, with these little tools w- to, to make boring stuff interesting. Mm-hmm. they're my way of, of, of adapting and, and I can't make myself who I'm not, but I can learn ways to adjust. Yeah. and, yeah, so. Yeah. And, and I think what's coming through for me as you're sharing is y- as we move into mid-life, we get to come at life through more of a lens of curiosity- And playfulness. So instead of saying, "Well, this is, this is not me. I can't do that," why are you ask- why are you first, like you said, responding like that? Where's that coming from? But secondly, build a, a lens of curiosity around it. I wonder why that seems to be a no for me. Hmm. Is it really a no for me? And then start to get more understanding by having that lens of curiosity to discover, and maybe it isn't something you're going to do, or it is you. If you don't take the time to- Yeah have a deeper understanding, you're never gonna know. Absolutely. And like you said from the beginning, we go nuts staying in the ruts, right? And if you're at that stage where we are, thriving after 45, we Life is changing. Life shifts, and we really get to see it in the face because as our bodies change, as our lives change, as if we are a family, children start changing, moving out or staying in and you're thinking, "You need to be gone. I'm done supporting you. What have I done?" Right? So that whole introspective, but not through the lens of your former identities, but moving that needle and start to see. And one of the things I love to do with my clients is talk about when was the last time you remember being fully you? Not the mo- not the mom, the wife, the sister, the daughter. You as a person. And when people take time to sift and sort through that, they start to, "Oh my gosh, I used to love..." I remember one client was, "I used to go dancing every Friday night at the country bar. I have I love dancing. Why haven't I been dancing for years?" Right? Don't beat yourself up about what you haven't done in that time span. You've opened up a new opportunity to go and explore again, and start to tap back into... And it might not be the same person anymore. You, I don't love it as much as I did, but I remember. What did I love about it? Maybe it wasn't the dancing. Maybe it was the networking. Maybe it was being with your friends. Maybe, whatever. So your books, I'm sure, help people, women in particular, 'cause that's who our audience that we're speaking to, but start to tap into that playfulness again and those curiosity questions, and what if, right? Yeah. And, and, and it's, it, it's more than just As I said, it- it's a bit like that, that soulfulness that I was talking about. Yeah. How we have the dis- this filter- Yes up between us and, and if it's fiction, then it's safe. All right? Yeah. Because it's not a real story. It hasn't happened. and the number of, of readers who've written to me, and, one instance that comes to mind is, with the cancer subject. I wrote a book- Yes about a ghost. and the, the, the heroine in that story was just recovering from breast cancer. 'Cause again, I'm processing my own experiences through writing. And when that book came out, she tracked me down, 'cause I wasn't easy to find, and she basically said, "Look, I had cancer 20-odd years ago." And she said, "Until I read your book- I hadn't realized that I had survived. I was still living- Yeah with, with, with that, that hanging over me. And suddenly I went, "No, I, I've actually survived." And, and that realization came- Yeah from my book. And, and those sorts of moments are, are, are, what are powerful for, for me. You know, I, I don't know what I'm writing- Of course half the time. Yeah. I just hand over. My muse does the work. I just, act as, as a, a secretary and, and- Sure and, and write it all down. And, and I don't realize the impact that my words have on people until they come back to me and say, "You said this, and your, your character did this. That changed me." I even had a young... 'Cause I, I write about sexual abuse a lot. Mm-hmm. and, mainly in my, my, ancient history books, because it really was a big thing in, s- you know, when, when you're a slave, your body doesn't belong to you, so abuse is, is a big thing. but out of the blue, I had a young, young, young man, I don't know how old, whether, how- Mm-hmm what age he was. But he wrote and he said that, you know, the book had, had really helped him because the, one of the, the characters in the book, one of the male characters in the book had been, a sex slave pretty much the whole of his life. And, and the story was about love, this, this woman's love for him, bringing him back from his- Mm his lack of self-worth, feeling like he was, you know, a dog, basically. That's how he saw himself- Wow as a, as a dog, not fit for, for, you know, a, a, a pure woman or a good woman. And, so the story, it, it, it was healing for him to, to, to read. Was being said to, to the character. and, and I, and it was like, it was just a shock because I, I never expected, that to, to be something. I never thought a boy would read the book. I never thought a young- Right. Yeah young man would read the book. That's right. A re- I mean, there is a very large, and a growing number of, of men reading romances these days. But- Mm-hmm in my head at the time, it was still- Yeah only women read romance. Men make fun of it. You know, I got used to that. Men make fun of romance. It's not serious. Yeah. and so- Mm-hmm but it, to me, it's very serious. Well- What a- You know. What a gift to be able to take your life's events and use them to not only heal yourself and move yourself forward in a way that resonates so deeply for you- And as your journey continues, I can't imagine what's going to continue to happen for people reflecting back to you the power of your words and your work and your commitment to continuing to be more and more fully you all the time. What a gift. Thank you. What a real gift. Yeah. Yeah, it, it, it is. It's W- I don't usually think about it, but, you know, actually I'm getting a little bit teary just thinking about that figure. That's okay. Yeah. It, it I d- I don't think I don't You know, when you said, you know, sent me that, that list of question, how many people have you influenced? And it was like, oh, I don't know. And, I, I literally, this is me, I went to AI and said, "Help me answer some of these questions." Because I don't know what to say. And, and it wrote the, the 100,000 and, and I kind of went, "Look, I can't say that." And, and then I went, "Well, yeah, I suppose I can." You know? Yeah. And when I And I B- but it, again, you don't go around thinking, "Oh, I've, I've helped 100,000 people along the way." And that's why in brackets I kind of went, you know, from mild to, to extreme help. Sure just, you know, sometimes people read my books and they're just escape, you know? Yeah. They're just a light entertainment. And even that, even that, if you're stressed out of your eyeballs- Yes and all you wanna do is get away from the world- Yeah for a while, a good book is the best way- Yeah to do that, you know? And especially these days. I mean- Yeah again, one of my things at the moment is, you know, how social media and the algorithms and- Yeah and AI are causing it. But we're becoming Our attention span is becoming so short, and a lot of people find it really difficult to even read a book anymore. They can't. They haven't got the patience with it. Yeah. So, you know, if somebody can actually read a book all the way- Hmm through cover to cover, I take that as a, a major gain. It's great. Absolutely. You know? Absolutely. Absolutely. Stop the scroll for a while. Yeah. It And, and we're getting conditioned with the devices that are in our hands 24/7 to keep go- going, going, going and letting- Mm nothing stick so that our attention is now outside instead of inside. Again, which is why we are having these conversations, to tap back into for you by you because of you so that you can thrive after 45 and well beyond. And handle the chaos that's going on outside. Oh. It's getting worse. I mean- Oh, it's- I, I was only thinking again, thinking about this this morning. It's like in the '70s a book called Future Shock came out. I don't know if you remember it, but it was talking about how things are speeding up, you know? And, and I thought if they wrote that book now- into that. And it, it's like, it's chaos. Everything is changing so fast. AI, I mean, I mean, I've been working with AI for less than a year, and yet I have seen so many changes- Oh, yeah so many improvements to AI in that time. It's exponential growth. Mm-hmm. So it's... And, and so we can't all keep, we can't keep up. We literally cannot keep up with the way things are changing. And, and we try to, so our nervous systems are completely shot. Yes. and the only way to, to, to stop that is to literally, as you were saying, it's like, it's come back into your body. Be embodied. Touch things again. Feel things. listen to, to music. Just listening. Yeah. read a good book. Do, do things- Mm that slow your whole system down so that when the chaos hits again, you know, you're coming from a stable point within yourself. Yeah. So. Yeah. Yeah. That's- Yeah that's my, my advice. I love it. Before we close, is there anything you would love to share, a nugget that you haven't already tapped into with our audience? Is there anything in particular you'd like to say, "All right, ladies. Thrive After 45, here's my main message for you"? You need, you will regularly have in your life these resets. All right? The- where your, your, your life forces you out of autopilot, and if I had any advice to anybody, it's like don't let the circumstances be what create that, that reset. Find ways to do your own- Mm reset. Reset your autopilot. Regularly do it. Sort of like the same ways we do our, our housework. and then, you know, well m- a spring clean or whatever it is. We need to do that with our lives and find, okay, what's not working for us anymore? Mm. Let's get rid of that. What's working? W- how c- what can we try now? So that we're not constantly getting to the end of our life and go- Mm uh, was that my life? you know? It, it's all been lived on autopilot. Mm-hmm. Lived a role instead of being yourself. so yeah. That's my advice. I love it. Again. And so gratefully received on this end. There is one thing I want to bring back that we talked about prior to actually pushing record, and you were talking about, and I'd love to have it in your own words, and I'm just gonna kind of share the overview, but it was around when I have my final breath, let's say, I don't want to regret the things I didn't do. Tell me what, what you were saying there. When I- Just so- yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I think we, we all have regrets, but I- Mm I want, at the end of my life, I don't want to have regrets about the things that I haven't done. I will probably have regrets about the things I have done because we all make mistakes. Yeah. And I believe mistakes are, are learning experiences. So I've had my share of learning experiences, but I don't want to get to the end of my life and go, "I regret not doing this." Yeah. and, and, and that's how I live my life. I- Yeah I try to never regret not doing something. Yeah. Yeah. You know, not, not crazy things, but- Yeah things... If something comes to me and I go, "Oh, I'd like to do that. Oh, no, no, that's not really me. Oh, no, that won't work." Mm. That was the mindset I was in before Greta popped in to, to- Right to clear, clear it away. It was like I, I'd got stuck into that, you know? Yeah. This is me. It doesn't work. This is not g- 'cause it does. After a while, with all of the, the marketing stuff that's out there of people- Yeah telling you this is wrong, that's gonna... And, and, and you try this and it doesn't work. You try that and you- Ah and you do. You end up in this, this like, ah, I'm going crazy with all this and nothing works. Yeah. And, you know, and, and so you need a reset. It's like, shoo. Yeah. Press a button, and- Yes Yeah So no regrets. Well, no regrets about the things I haven't done. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Thank you for your time, your conversation, the stories. I just loved our time together today, and I so appreciate that you said yes. I know, because of the long list of people asking to come on the show and how long it takes to get people onto the show because I'm backed up, but I can't wait for our audience to hear this conversation. And make sure that you like, follow, and share so that more women can tap into the gifts and talents of our special guests. And in the show notes, we will have all of the ways that you can find Neice Glover and all that she has to share with the world. Could I- Yes just add a little something? Absolutely. All right. Some- something I thought of. I mean, it's got nothing to do with promotion or anything else, but- Yeah I would love for anybody out there listening to- Yeah to email me, which is You know, j- just a Gmail address. but any time that you've found your life has been changed by something, a book you've read, a- Mm a fictional book you've read, a character who's, who's, who did something that made you decide you wanted to do that or whatever it is, I, I would love to hear those stories. Mm. And I'm, I always reply, and I always read anything that people write to me. So that, that's something that I would genuinely like. That's got nothing to do with promotion. No, that's perfect. It's for- Yeah yeah. Love it. Yeah. We will make sure that your email gets into the show notes as well, so those who are listening jump to the show notes- For people trying to spell my name. We'll have it all ready for you. No problem. Okay. Be- Excellent. Absolutely. Before we do close, I do wanna share something pretty clearly with you, that this November I am hosting a live in-person experience called Ignite: The Inner Uprising. It is a two-day immersive gathering for women in midlife years who feel this quiet pull towards something more truthful, more embodied, more fully their own, just like we've been talking about here. It's an extension of these conversations that we have on our show, and it's where reflection becomes embodied, insights get integrated. Women who have held so much for others are gonna gather and stand fully in their own sovereignty. So if something in our conversation stirred inside of you, if your body started leaning in, checking off, going, "Ooh, I understand what that's about," this is not accidental, in my opinion anyway. The wait list is currently open, so if Ignite feels something that your future self wants to be in that room, I invite you to add your name to that list. The link'll be in the show notes. And as always, as mentioned before, like, follow, share so that more women can find these powerful conversations. And there is a place for us to gather. Have a wonderful day. Sounds fantastic. Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait. Have a wonderful day, everyone.