One Question at a Time with Ellen M Busch

Hello and welcome to Thrive After 45. I'm Denise Drinkwalter, midlife mirror and mentor, and every week I am so honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45. Together, we'll uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion. Because when one woman turns her light on, the rest of the room catches fire What if the body keeps score and the mind decides who wins? My guest today has spent her career standing in the gap between surviving and thriving. First as an EMT and certified hip- hyperbaric technician, holding space for people in their most fragile moments, and later as a certified unbeatable mind coach, author, and speaker, teaching others how to build the resilience she had to find for herself, because her expertise isn't just professional. It is lived. Trauma, recovery, dyslexia, the kind of personal transformation that doesn't happen on a stage, it happens in the quiet, unglamorous work of rebuilding from the inside out. Over the past decade, our guest has worked with thousands of people through healthcare, coaching, workshops, and her own writing, helping them move from white-knuckling through life to actually living it, reducing stress, quieting that self-doubt, strengthening the kind of intuition that gets buried under survival mode. This will be a conversation about what it really takes to come back from the edge and stay there standing. It is such an honor and a privilege to welcome Ellen Bush to Thrive After 45 today. Wonderful to have you. Denise, thank you so much. It's an honor to be here with you. We have to dive right in. We- Tell us your story so we can really understand the capacity that you have to hold people in the most difficult times in their lives. Sure. So just a little bit of background on my trauma, my life experience. Absolutely, yeah. you know, at the age of six in the 1970s, I was diagnosed as both being ambidextrous and dyslexic And unfortunately, the school system, despite living in an affluent New York City suburb, I was written off- Hmm by the education system. My parents were told at a parent-teacher conference, "You know, just focus on finding her a husband because she might finish high school, but college, uh, and, you know, anything beyond that was out of the question." Just- Oh. At... How old were you? You said- I was either six or seven when that happened. Six or seven? Mm-hmm. Oh, Ellen. Yeah. Oh. Okay. So that's where my- Carry on. I- Yeah. I'm in disbelief over here. Yeah. Former educator cannot handle that kind of a start. Go ahead, my dear. Oh. So, you know, it, and, and I was fortunate to be diagnosed in an affluent, you know, progressive school, but the consequence that came with that was the belief system that it is an IQ issue or an, an intelligence issue. And that set the stage for my... I was traumatized by the school system because they wrote me off. Yeah. I had no future. Of course. And then, you know, my self-esteem and self-worth were completely destroyed. So here I am moving through the schools, you know, as I'm growing up- Mm-hmm you know, trying to cope with all of this, and being written off and put down. Oh, and there goes, of course, the bullies. Yeah. fortunately, I had parents who just said, "No, this is ridiculous. We're not buying into this." my father was dyslexic, but he was never diagnosed. He went through- Right the system in the '40s and the '50s, and they just didn't know about it then. Right. So, you know, try and keep that brief, and just- Mm-hmm kind of fast-forward to get, you know, to survivor and thriving. Mm-hmm. So, you know, trying to function as an adult and build a career with no self-esteem and no self-worth is incredibly difficult. Mm-hmm. I had no concept of the trauma that I was carrying around both psychologically and physically. Mm-hmm. And that made me... And being a woman of low self-esteem made me a target. Of course, yeah. In school, I was a target of bullies. Yeah. In the workplace, it was the target of narcissistic managers. In college and socially, I've had two stalkers. Wow. I ended up married to a narcissistic husband. Mm-hmm. Who we had an incident of violence and six years of psychological abuse. I had to execute, plan and execute an escape. Mm-hmm. I had no real understanding of how much danger I was in until I talked to an attorney, and that attorney scared the hell out of me. I bet. Yeah. Aw. And I got out. Yeah. And you- That's when I realized I was in trouble. Mm-hmm. I was physically safe. My parents took me in, thank goodness. Yeah. And, but I was driving through stop signs and red lights. I was so traumatized. I couldn't problem solve. I couldn't think. Yeah. And I actually reached my surrender point. Mm-hmm. And I hear a lot about this in the recovery community- Okay but this is trauma recovery. This is a little bit different. And, I'm not a religious person. Mm-hmm. I was raised Episcopalian, which is pretty vanilla. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I just had this moment where I just looked up at the sky and I said, "I don't know what else to do." Mm-hmm. I said, "I am just turning myself over. I'm all yours." Mm-hmm. And that's when things started to get better. Wow. And that's when I got to work with coaches, therapists, acupuncturists, Reiki masters, EMDR and trauma specialists. I sought out every mode of healing that I could find. And it took a lot of time- I bet to work. Yeah. we're talking, you know, a real 13, 14-year journey. Yeah. Yeah. And what I've learned is as I moved through that healing process, it... And it doesn't just happen overnight, and it can't- Right happen overnight because your psyche and your body would go kind of bonkers if you- Yeah if you just, like, healed like that. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That makes sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. And it, every day got a little bit better. Mm-hmm. So I had relief. it was a little scary at first. You know, I asked myself this question, "Why does this keep happening to me?" Hmm. Yeah. And I realized it all started from that childhood trauma and self-esteem destruction. Wow. And it carried- Yeah through into adulthood, and that is what I needed to address. Right. And I started to address that, and then at some point the healing started to taper off. It started to turn into self-discovery. Hmm. I love this. Now, the healing- Yeah didn't stop. Of course. It, it continued, but I started learning about who I am as a woman and as a human being. Mm-hmm. And that became exciting. Hmm. And every day I was feeling a little bit better. And then I started to train with, retired Commander Mark Divine, who is a retired Navy SEAL and has a program for civilians. Okay. Mm-hmm. And that's where I started to learn the techniques around breathwork- Hmm time in silence, meditation, the value of somatic work, whether it's yoga, tai chi. All these things affect not just our physicality, but our brains. Mm-hmm. And that's where the thriving really started. And I've been training now with Mark for 10 years. Oh, wow. And I have my coaching certification through him. Sure. And I've really gotten to this point now where I'm r- feeling so in that thriving space- Mm-hmm I'm a high self-esteem woman. I'm clear on my purpose, my principles- Hmm and, my boundaries. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I do not apologize for those boundaries. Mm-hmm. I don't feel the need to apologize for them. Right. I don't carry anger when somebody tries to violate them. Yeah. They're just- Yeah. Yeah that's a boundary. Right. And if you cannot accept my boundary, you are not gonna be a part of my life. Mm-hmm. And that's where I've really gotten to most recently. Nice. And I've also started some other work with, Dr. Bradley Nelson's training program, or modality I should say- Okay which is called The Body Code. And that works with- Wow the idea that the body can have trauma trapped in your physicality. It could be in different organs. And I've been working with a practitioner on that. Mm-hmm. And that has to happen slowly over time as well. Otherwise- Mm-hmm it will make you sick, and there are times I've actually had flu-like symptoms. Yeah. and it's really- Helped me to understand the depth or the magnitude of the trauma that I was carrying around in my body, and we are releasing it slowly over time. Nice. Yeah. And the other thing that's... and I know I've kind of gone on here No, that's okay, though. That's good. That's no problem. There's so much to share. It's all good. Ah. And there's a lot in there. That's a fact. But one of the things I've really, has surprised me the most is as I've released this trauma out of my system- Mm-hmm all of a sudden my intuition and my gut went- Mm from a volume two to a volume 10. Okay. And I cannot ignore it anymore. Right. Whereas before I could just say, "Oh, I'm not gonna listen to that." Yeah. Yeah. Now it screams at me. So I have a question that's coming up pretty, pretty predominantly around that piece specifically. Sure. If w- we're in the audience and we're listening and going, "Ooh, I may- maybe is there something blocking my intuition?" 'Cause I get a niggling and I can easily, just like you shared. Right. I can p- where now it's so loud it's like, "Nope, this, this is next. This is where, what's coming up next," and, and I have learned to trust that and move to it in whatever- Right way, form, fashion it needs to. doing this kind of work- Mm-hmm from your experience and from those that you support in their journeys, is it a individual timeline for them to get to what is needed for them to live fully and more authentically themselves? Is it independent, or is... Yeah. I think it is. Yeah. I think everybody's different. Everybody's journey is unique. Sure. so I think it is. You know, this is just what my experience has been. Of course. Yeah. And I also think it has to do with the depth or the magnitude of what you're carrying around. Mm. If you're carrying around big stuff- Yeah that's gonna take longer. Of course. Yeah. Makes perfect sense. And do you feel or do you... Shouldn't say feel. That's not the right word I wanna use. Do you, have, knowledge or idea that when you trace your trauma back to the biggest initial trauma that you experienced, when it's in y- early years, is that sometimes more profound because those are growth years? Or what is your experience that way? Yes. And I think- Because the younger a trauma experience happens, I think it not only shapes our perspective on the world, but, you know, I think if you talk to a neurologist, it's probably gonna, you know, from my understanding, it's gonna affect your brain and how your brain develops as a child. Right. Yeah. So you can have a double whammy kind of- Yeah thing going on there. And I think that's where something like EMDR is so powerful because that actually works on that piece of it. Okay. your neurology, of rewiring those, those synapses in the brain. Okay. For our audience who aren't sure with the acronym, EMDR means what, and what is it exactly? Oh my goodness. Eye movement- desensiti-- eye movement desensitization, this is my dyslexic brain- That's okay and, and reprogramming. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And it is considered a legitimate- Mm-hmm science. Practice, yep. Practice. Mm-hmm. And many therapists and psychiatrists or mental health professionals- Mm-hmm are certified in it, and- Okay I always say that if you're gonna work with somebody, make sure that they are credentialed. And if you're looking for an EMDR specialist, they should be credentialed specifically in EMDR. Right. Okay. Okay. It's really important to do that. Yeah. Thank you for that information. That's very valuable. Perfect, thank you. Yes, yes. So you've talked about standing on the edge. Mm-hmm. And I heard you talk about not just surviving, but you literally are thriving. Your energy shifted when you shared that sentence. Thank you. Your smile went ear to ear. I mean, you didn't make anything up. It was real. You were like, "And now I'm thriving," and you're- Yeah in it. You're stepped into it. You can feel it. Oh, yeah. What does it really mean to thrive after 45, like our, our show is called? Especially after you've- Yeah experienced everything, like you've talked about, the trauma, adversity, major life changes. Which midlife years, hello. Right. These things hit us. Hello. You know, I think one of the most important things, and, and actually I'm gonna back up a little bit. Of course. So the training Mark designed is based on what we call the Five Mountain Program. Okay. So you're always gonna be working on five different parts of yourself. Okay. You're working on your physical, your mental, your emotional, your intuitional, which we have just talked about. Yes. And what we call kokoro, and kokoro is the Japanese word for the merging of the heart of the mind. Mm. And the mind. Mm-hmm. So that can be, it can be a faith. It can be, a somatic practice. It can be service with a higher purpose. it's kind of a safe way of not diving, of diving into spirituality without diving into religion. Okay. Sure. Fair enough. Yep. So, and I apologize. That's okay. Our air quality here in Colorado is terrible- Mm. Oh, that's- due to the fires that we're having we are drink- I drinking water. It's very hot here, so it's all good. Yeah. So, you know, one of the first things in thriving is taking care of that physical mountain. Mm-hmm. Taking care of your physicality, especially when we're over 45. Mm-hmm. Because we do start to have significant health risks as our hormone levels change. Of course. So whatever that looks like for you, I am very, very physically active. Mm-hmm. I'm an expert skier, former ski instructor, so my life is built around skiing all winter long. Yeah. It's a way of life, not just a lifestyle for me. Sure. I love that. And being here in Colorado, we have, we call it, my friends and I call it the adult playground. Yep. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm always out biking, hiking, though we seem to be having a lot of snakes this year, so that's been- Oh a little bit of an issue. Yep, yep. Yeah. you know, just enjoying being outdoors and being in nature. Right. Yeah. And that's really the biggest piece of it. But- Yeah using all of these different tools to make- Mm-hmm sure we are taking care of the physical, the emotional, the mental, it- Mm-hmm it, and intuitional will naturally come up, and then the koro, our purpose, will also naturally come up. Okay. And, and I think there's something else here of great value that our Western society does not really value in this- Mm-hmm day and age, and that is a woman's wisdom. Hmm. And our wisdom is incredibly valuable. I'm not a mom. I didn't get to be a mom, but I look at my coaching and my wisdom. That's what I get to give back. Yep. Absolutely. And that is hugely valuable. Yeah. And when we look back in history, you know, there are societies in antiquity who incr- tremendously valued women's wisdom, especially the grandmothers and then- Yes yes. So I think there's, to recognize that when you go through something really challenging or something really traumatic, and you come through the other side, what you have, it matters. Right. Yes. It is incredibly powerful, and there's a lot of other young women who need that. Mm-hmm. And- Absolutely that is really critical. and I hope that that, you know, in talking, having conversations with women like you- Yeah I think it's starting to shift a little bit. Right. but I think we need more of it. Yeah. I was gonna say, I, I believe that what you're sharing is absolutely golden, and I believe that the door is open- Mm-hmm for those types of conversations more than they were. At least they're more visible than they have been in the past. Right. I think the conversations are shifting. Mm-hmm. And the more the likes of you who can get on shows and share your wisdom and spread it, I look- Yeah at my stats, and I don't just have 45-year-old women listening to our show. Yay. Right. Thank you. Sure. Because we do have 20, 25-year-olds listening because they want to be in the know. Right. What might be coming? What can I fulfill my life like now? I... Do I have to wait to 45? I get people asking me that all the time. You mean, I have to wait till I'm 45- to thrive? I'm like, "Yeah, joke's on you. You know you don't have to wait, right?" Right. You are the driver of your own bus, but these conversations are so valuable- Mm-hmm Absolutely. Those five pieces you just spoke about, they're not age-related. No. They're everywhere for everyone. Right. Even I think of my grandchildren, they're beneficial. Absolutely. Right? Yeah. You know, and I think there's another thing that a lot of people don't necessarily understand is when you work on all five of those bounds at the same time- Mm-hmm they all support each other. Mm. Interesting. So let me give you an example of a study- Yeah that was done. And, and I don't remember the specifics, so please don't- That's okay hold me to it. No worries. it was done in Asia, and there was, a martial arts school. Okay. And they had two groups. They had one that trained for four hours a day and, and spent another four hours a day, in meditation, time in silence, time in nature. And they had another group that just trained for eight hours a day. Mm. And the group that spent the time in meditation and silence, when they were tested at the end, way outperformed the candidates who just focused on the physical mountain. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and the other thing that, one of the things that, that I really desire to do, and I'm trying to f- find the best way to do this, is I'd love to create a program, and I've done some work with a, I've done some speaking work with a credentialed clinical psychiatrist trauma expert. Mm-hmm. And she and I speak together, and we're trying to figure out a way to put together a program for young women. Mm. Especially with what's going on in the manosphere. You know, to talk about boundaries. Yep. Yeah. And how putting boundaries into place is a practice. It's not something you do once and you're done. You have to constantly reinforce that. Yeah. And you don't need to be polite. Because I look back and I wish somebody had done that for me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because I realize now how I handled those two stalkers, if I had been much more-- If I hadn't been polite- Right it would've been a much less threatening and much less- Yeah shorter experience. Right. Right. And now I just have no tolerance for it- Yeah whatsoever. And to include maybe perhaps some self-defense training. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause we have to know how to defend ourselves. Mm-hmm. And as unfortunate as that is, that's the honest truth. Yeah. Yeah. No. So. It's-- I, I-- There's some people I wanna connect you with. a lady that I'm- Good actually, gonna have on the show. I'm not sure. We haven't had the conversation yet, but she will be on my show, and she is doing a lot of work in Canada right now around the violence and the boundary setting and keeping women safe. Yeah. So I'll, I would love to connect you with her and- I would love that. Yeah, yeah. And if I can give you an example of how I was- Of course before some training. So- The Ellen before starting to train with Mark Divine and the Navy SEALs, I mean- Mm-hmm that's a high self-esteem effective group to train with. Sure. So it's not just about, it's not about jumping out of planes and shooting guns. Right. It's about what's going on here- In the mind what's going on in the heart- Yeah and what's going on in the gut. Yeah. And Mark is actually trained in seven different yoga practices. Wow. Brings a really unique perspective, the, i- you know, the elite military training and then all of these other thought processes are kind of melded together. Yeah. So one of the programs that I did with him, and I wrote about it in my book, it's called Sheepdog Training. And it was three days of training with, retired Navy SEALs, one who was active duty, and I'm not a big fan of firearms, but- Mm-hmm part of this was firearms training. Mm-hmm. My father, both of my parents have passed away now several years, but one of the things my father wanted for me as a veteran was to know how to safely handle a firearm. Mm, mm-hmm. That's certainly a reasonable thing, whether you're a gun enthusiast or not. Sure, yeah. And, and I know how sensitive that is in society, so- Right I had to have that conversation very carefully. Of course. There was also martial arts training, and then there was, EMT training or catastrophic injury training. Sure. Now, I'd been an EMT for years, but I did not have a lot of experience with gunshot wounds and really catastrophic injuries. Okay. So one of the SEALs who was active duty, just on a down cycle, was a Navy SEAL medic. Okay. I got to train with him, and he was just incredible. Mm. You know, a lot of combat experience. Mm-hmm. I came out of that training a different woman. I bet you did. 72 hours of training with these men, and I was- Wow I had a moment in the, self-defense training where I accidentally hit the instructor in the face. Mm-hmm. And I did this little girl, "Oh, I'm so sorry." And he looked at me, and he got in my face, he said, "I'm trying to kill you." Yeah. "Do not apologize." And he woke me up. Yeah. I bet. I realized I was still worried- I bet about being polite. I was still worried about, you know, how I was being perceived. Mm-hmm. And I needed to be focused on the training, because that training could potentially- Of course save my life. Yeah, of course. And not care- Mm that I made a mistake. You know, rookies in martial arts training, it happens. Of course, yeah. It's just part... And instructors know that. They deal with it all the time. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I did have padding on my hand, so that was good. and then I did- Yeah another set of training with a coach, a- another Unbeable Mind coach that I worked with. His name is Dennis Stoica. He's retired from the FBI. He's also a Krav Maga expert, and he put me through 22 hours of training in two days. Mm. Wow. That's- It was intense I mean And I knew what I was signing up for. Yeah, yeah. I... and he also knew me. He knew my physical fitness level, so he- Of course you know, there was just- So he could- the three of us in the training. Right. So it was very small- Mm-hmm very personalized. Mm-hmm. And he was an amazing trainer. Mm-hmm. And then six months later, I'm walking through Arvada, Colorado, which has a wonderful little pedestrian community with shops and restaurants and- Yep I'm walking through with my friend. We had just gotten coffee together, and there's a gentleman walking towards me. Mm-hmm. And he's obviously homeless. Unfortunately, we have a very large homeless population here in- Right the Denver area. Right. And he was a big guy. He was about- Mm 6'2", and he and I made onci- contact. Mm-hmm. And I will never forget his blue eyes. Mm. And I just looked at him straight in the eye, and- Mm that inner dialogue was, "Yeah, don't." Yeah. "Don't." Yeah. And he kept walking. Mm-hmm. But the other Ellen, previous to all of this work and training, I was a target of two stalkers- Right, yeah narcissistic husband, because they could see that I was vulnerable. Right. And I believe... Now, we can never know for sure about this homeless man. Of course, of course. But I believe that my energy- Yeah, yeah my, my stature, my message, my- Yeah direct eye contact, I'm not a victim. Yeah, yeah. You're not gonna pick me. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where we start to talk about thriving. That's when you know you've made- Right the crossover to the gap. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And in the, at the end of the day- I am absolutely positive that you walked away from that situation, like, just at peace, right? Just knowing- Oh, yes that nothing happened. Yeah. You didn't have to say. Right. you just went into what you know who you are as all of the trainings that you've had and all of the work that you've done over the years. And I love, I think what you're sharing is really pivotal for- Yeah our audience in that taking that view. Where was I and where am I now? Absolutely. Because sometimes we forget. I mean, depending on what we're dealing with and what's going on in life for us right now, we get consumed by, "Woe is me," 'cause I can't get my head above the water. But when you stop, take that breath- Mm-hmm look back at where you were and go, "Wait a minute." Exactly. You know? It's okay. I'm doing okay. Exactly. And that's okay, right? Yeah. And give yourself credit. Absolutely, yes. You know, we're so taught to be people pleasers and, and focus on other people. No, if you're surviving- Yeah and trying to recover from something, it's all about you. Yeah. Because you can't be of service or serve your purpose if you're a mess. Yeah, exactly. If you're traumatized. Yeah. Or even your own families or your career, whatever that looks like for you. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. You can only give out what you have left over, right? Right. so this has been incredible. I knew it would be. I knew it would be. is there anything you would love to share with our audience that you haven't shared? A little final message, and then they're gonna look in the show notes 'cause we'll have all the ways- Mm to contact you. We'll have your book in there. Great. Anything else that you have that you want me to share in the show notes, definitely go in. But is there something you'd love to share with, with our audience before we close up today? You know, this is something that I learned as a child, and then I also learned from Mark Divine. You know, when I was struggling as a dyslexic student- Mm my dad used to say to me, he was my cheerleader. Yeah. He'd say to me, "Ellen, one question at a time." Mm. "One question at a time." And what he was teaching me was micro goals. Yep. And it's something I kind of was able to name and reinforce with Mark Divine's training, and it's what the SEALs do. They just work on their micro goals. What's right in front of you that you need to deal with right now? Whatever you're dealing with, take it on with the context of micro goals. Don't worry about the big picture, but also know that you can get there. You can survive. You can heal. You can thrive. You can completely reinvent yourself or recreate your life. I've done it, and I know other women who have done it too. Yeah. It is possible, but it takes commitment- Mm-hmm and it takes hard work, and sometimes going to those scary places. Yeah. But don't do it alone. Right. I- Find, you know, friends who are really supportive, not kinda supportive. Mm-hmm. And credentialed professionals. Mm-hmm. Please be very careful who you work with. Those are absolutely golden nuggets. Golden nuggets. And I love, you know, because a lot of times what we do is we're just so overwhelmed by it all, we don't know where to start. Mm-hmm. What I'm hearing you say is just one. Just one thing at a time. Whatever. And if it's too big to look at one chunk of a chunk- Right break it down even further, right? Even further, yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And breathe. Yes. A breath practice is really the foundation of all of this. Mm-hmm. Because we all breathe every day, and a lot of times when we get-- we're traumatized, we hold our breath. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And that- Yeah is not just bad emotionally and mentally, it's bad for our brain. Yeah. We're not getting the oxygen we need. Absolutely. So, yeah. Thank you. Wonderful. I'm so glad we met. I am too. So glad. Thank you. So, I'm so honored to be able to-- You know, this is my purpose now. Yeah, absolutely. Is to help, you know, it, mostly women, but you know, there are men who I talk to as well. Sure. Of course. So, mm-hmm. Of course. Again, we will have everything in the show notes so that you can find Ellen, make sure that you connect. Follow her where she has her, her information. I believe she's on LinkedIn, and she gave me her website as well, so we'll make sure all of that information goes in the, in the show notes. Before we close, I wanna tell you about a room of our own. So, in November 12th and 13th this year, I am hosting a live in-person experience, and it's called Ignite the Inner Uprising. It's two days where women are gathering, and we are feeling this quiet pull. Something truthful, more embodied, more stepping into our own. And, and it's more of an extension of these types of conversations, and it's where reflection becomes embodiment and insight becomes integrated, where women who have held so much for themselves and/or others are finally going to be able to stand fully in their own sovereignty. So, if something in the conversation today stirred inside of you where you started leaning in and going, "Oh, check. That's me," that is not accidental. The list is open right now. The door is open, so if you feel that Ignite is something you want to explore, I invite you to add your name. We have virtual rooms we are doing monthly leading up to the two-day immersive experience, which is I'm so honored to be able to go to this and create this space for women. And as always, follow, like, share, leave us a review so more women can find their way to these incredible conversations, because when one woman turns her light on, the rest of the room does catch fire. Thank you again, Ellen, and thank you, audience, for listening. Have a wonderful day. Thank you