Power in the Pause with Susan Larkin

Denise 0:00

Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Thrive After 45. I'm Denise Drinkwalter, heart whisperer, midlife mirror, and mentor. And every week, I am so honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45. Together, we uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion, because when one woman turns her light on, the rest of the room catches fire. What does it take for a woman to look at her own life and decide something has to change? Not because anybody told her, but because she knew. Today, our guest was stressed. She was burned out, and like so many women, she had found something that took that edge off at the end of a long day. She wasn't falling apart. She was holding everything together, but quietly, she knew. So she did something that most women never actually do. She got honest with herself, she did the work, and she completely transformed her relationship with the one thing she had been using to help her cope. And then she couldn't keep it to herself. Thank heavens. She has trained with leading voices in this field, Annie Grace, Jolene Park, and she went even deeper into the body and the soul of lasting change. For five year n- years now, our guest has sat with hundreds of women in groups and more than 40 one-on-ones, not to take anything away from them, but to give them something back, themselves. It is such an honor and a privilege to welcome our special guest to our show today, Susan Larkin. Thank you for being here. Oh, thank you for having me. What a beautiful introduction. Oh, thank you. Well, you know, what you have done, the steps you have taken, the realization and awareness, and what you did with that- is exactly why we needed to come on here and have this conversation today, right? So I would love to know a little bit more about the behind the scenes in terms of what was it? Was it one thing that made you kind of go, "Ugh?" How did it all un- unfold for you? 'Cause I don't think it unraveled at all. I think it unfolded for you. Yes. It unfolded, and then it unraveled a little bit at the end. Okay. Here we go. So here we go. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So yes, I was in a, very successful job in, higher education. I worked for Yale University School of Medicine, and I was also getting my MBA at the same time, and I had children in high school and elementary school. And then I think, "What was I thinking? Why w- why was I doing that?" And, you know, as my, the stress level in my life increased, I would, you know, drink coffee in the morning and have wine in the evening, and, found that the wine really felt like it was, you know, helping me cope with the transition back to home life after working all day- and now having to do all the stuff with the homework and the dinner and all that, so sort of that, like, swing oil, so to speak. Yeah. I'm like, "Okay, now I have to do my second job as Mom." Right. And I know a lot of mothers, you know, in, in the same boat. Yeah. And, and also, it's, it's, you know, it just felt like it was the, the duct tape that was holding everything together. You know, it, it's... I never had had a problem with alcohol earlier on in my life. You know- we very rarely drank when my children were younger. It really started with this, more intense managerial position in higher education. And at the same time, like I said, getting my MBA, having the kids, you know, just too many plates in the air. Like you said, I was doing all the things. Yeah. And, and I'm a high-achieving type A person, so I'm like, "Go, go, go, go, go," and then- Yeah I don't have any way to put the brakes on. So from what I know now as a coach, I know that I was using alcohol to regulate my nervous system. Okay. Ooh, say that again. I like that. Say that again. That'll land. Yes. Yeah. Well, now that what I've learned, which I didn't know at the time, is that I was using alcohol to regulate my nervous system. We either use it to upshift, like, "Okay, I need some more energy. I've gotta get through the rest of this evening," or to downshift, like, "Okay, I'm on the couch and Mom has her wine, and that means everybody go away and leave me alone." Yeah, so. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. When- Did it come to your realization, or did you think about it and then just hide it? Like, "No, that's not really what's going on." Like, I can just see a variety of people listening in the audience going, "Oh, how do I know if I'm doing that? Oh, I don't think I am." Right? And then pushing it away, when in reality maybe we are, right? Yeah. Well, I think in our society in some ways we've normalized over-drinking- to a certain extent. And at the time, and this was in the early 2013, '14, I- the regul- the dietary regulations were, you know, no more than seven drinks a week for women, and I knew I was over that. So, I mean- Yeah, yeah I'm a smart woman, and I was like, "I'm over that-" Sure "so I better pull back." But as I started... And what's so interesting about alcohol, it... And this is- Yes as you start to try to maybe manage it and control it, it seems like- it actually gets more out of control. Oh. Yeah interesting. Yeah. Like, the more... It's like what you resist persists, as I think- Tony Robbins says. Yeah. And so as I was resisting it and, like, putting in my diary, "Okay, I had two drinks tonight," putting it in MyFitnessPal, you know, but fudging the numbers, 'cause that's... Because they're, es- especially with wine, it's a five-ounce pour. Okay. And if you're a wine drinker, girly, like me- Yep a five-ounce pour is like, okay, at a restaurant you'd be like, keep it coming, buddy," you know? That's pretty chintzy for 14 bucks- Right or however much that glass of wine is. Right. And certainly at home I was not pouring a five-ounce pour. But I was still considering it one glass, two glasses. Gotcha. So when you look at, you know, the amount, I was- Mm-hmm I was tricking myself, so- Mm-hmm yeah. So I was trying to control it. I was looking at it. I was making rules, like only on Friday or Saturday. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, making rules around my drinking, only to drink more maybe on Friday, because I'd wait- Okay. Yeah you know, I'd lasted the whole week, and now it's like, "Ah, finally, it's Friday." It's your reward. Yeah. Yes, it's a reward at the end, you know, of crawling to the finish line at the end of a hard week. Yeah. And then, you know, I just noticed that I just didn't have an... I, I personally didn't have an off switch, and I work with a lot of women who, who recognize that. Like, yeah, once I have one I wanna have two, and then- Yeah you just wanna keep the party going, you know? And then you want... You know, then two turns into three, and- Right and that, that's not anything wrong with you. So I just wanna start by saying that. Okay. Yes. Good. That's alcohol. Yeah. You know, I don't think... We are not taught that alcohol's an addictive substance. It's always drugs and alcohol, and I think we also think that there is normal drinkers. There's only two categories- Yes of people, normal drinkers and then problem drinkers. Right. And that's not true either. And so- Okay the alcohol's an addictive substance, and the more you drink, the more you wanna drink. It creates a thirst for itself. So it's not a person problem, it's a substance problem, and it's not there's only, you know, n- there's normal drinkers. Normal, what does that word even mean? Right. Normal drinkers or problem drinkers. It's actually on a spectrum. Okay. Of, you know, maybe every now and again drinker, and then, you know, a regular drinker, and then, you know, and then it goes darker and darker. Sure. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But most of the women I work with are in that- Yep very middle section of, well, we're not really an every now and again drinker because we pretty much drink every weekend or- three nights a week, four nights a week. Some people drink every night, but they only have two glasses, whatever. Right. That's, you know, more on this end of the spectrum. But the problem with alcohol is that as you continue to drink, like nor- like that, I won't say normally. Yes. Yeah. Sure, sure, yeah. There's no normal. Yeah. It goes... It, it just continues across the spectrum. The spectrum only goes one direction. Okay. Usually just backwards. It goes, you know, if you're continuing with the substance- Right the substance in your body. Yeah. Right. So does your body tune into the stress? Do you tr- are you training it to tune into the stress, and that's the, antidote- when you drink? Oh, that, that would be the trigger, yes. Like, it would be- Okay a cue. Like, oh, I'm stressed, and because I've drank when I've been stressed before- Right that would be a cue in my brain. I've taught my brain, "Oh, when you're stressed, we do this." Right. And so it's just a habit. It becomes like- Yeah a r- an automatic pilot type of thing, and that's how our brain works, is we create these associations. We create actual habit loops in our brain. They're actual things. Like little highways that run in our brain, and so that's why it can seem like an automatic thing. It can seem like in the morning you're like, "Oh, gosh, I drank too much last night," you know, and to- Right "I'm not gonna drink tonight." Right. And then you get home from work, you put your purse on the counter- It's 5:00, it's Friday night, you grab the bottle. You're drinking a glass before you even realize you're doing it, because it's a- Right it's an automatic behavior- Right that you created in your life, unknowingly, right? Right, of course. You created this. Yeah, yeah. Right. And that's where I found myself. I found myself being drawn, d- being, being- Yeah pulled towards having that drink on Friday and Saturday nights, and feeling uncomfortable when I chose not to do it. Feeling deprived when I chose not to do it. And, Interesting. Yeah. And so at the time I f- worried about that, you know? I thought, because I was from that mindset of there's only two camps, you know? There's- Sure. Yeah, yeah normal drinkers and there's problem drinkers, and I thought, "Oh, well, if I'm struggling with my drinking a little bit or feeling... You know, sometimes drinking when- Right I'm not going to, or making rules and then breaking them." Breaking them, yep. Am I in this camp? Right. And I was terrified of that, you know? It was like a- Sure you know. And so I kept, what I say, trying to get back to, quote-unquote, normal, and that's what really kept me stuck instead of- Ah going, "What's going on here?" And investigating. and until I did that, once I finally just put my foot down and said, "Look, I gotta figure this out, and I wanna learn everything I can about why I'm drinking the way I am, what's going on- Right with alcohol," and so I took a course. Right. Yeah. And I learned everything about alcohol, but I also learned ways to manage the stress and to regulate- Yeah my nervous system without using alcohol. Yeah. And that's really what we have to do. We don't wanna be leaving- Of course ourselves deprived. Right. Totally. Leaving ourselves feeling like we don't have any tools. We need new tools. Right. Actually, better tools. Yeah. Like, now I feel like I can go anywhere. I can handle a lot more- Yeah than I could when I was just trying to handle it with, with wine. Right. Right. Yeah. It's very p- And so... Yeah. Oh. Go ahead. Oh, it's just- Go ahead a very powerful feeling to feel like you can regulate your own nervous system- Yeah without using an outside substance. And was one thing that Jolene Parks says that I love, a quote. she says, "Wouldn't it be nice to have something other than the bakery or the bar?" Yep. 'Cause sometimes we eat. We emotionally eat, too. We use stress to eat, et cetera. So it's kind of in the same category. Using a substance to manage your nervous system. Yeah. Manage your stress, manage your anxiety. Yeah. Manage the feelings you don't feel like feeling. Right. Yeah. Or... Yeah. Yeah. So for... Y- you'd shared that there's a continuum, right? Yes. There's, like, that continuum where there's once in a while right through to I'm gonna ca- and it's maybe not the right term, help me out here, binge drinking, where you open the bottle for the weekend, you make up all the time. Is that the extreme? No, no. Gray area drinking- No? is between, is that drinking that's between every now and again drinking and needing- Okay medical detox or needing to go to rehab. Binge drinking is within that spectrum, 'cause a lot of women- Oh, okay and I would say I probably fell into this category more than, I wasn't an everyday drinker, but again, when I would drink, I never just had one. Right. And sometimes that one turned into three or four, and then that would be considered binge drinking. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So someone that just drinks on the weekends but over drinks, it would be considered still a dr- gray area drinker, yeah. Okay. Okay. So is there a definition of what is gray area drinking, and why is this relevant to women who want to thrive after 45? Yeah. Yeah. So that's exa- the, the definition is exactly that. We had Jolene Park on our podcast, it's, the Sober and Lit Podcast, episode 73, and, she defined it on this, on our podcast- Okay which is it's that gray area between every now and again drinking and needing to go to rehab, like you cannot stop. Gray area drinkers- Right usually can't stop. We stop for a while, we've taken 30 days, we've done Dry January. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I took it off for lent all the time. Yeah. We just don't stay stopped, and when we go back to drinking, we usually go back to the same drinking patterns as we- Okay had before. So that's the definition of gray area drinking. Why it's important to women over 45 is, well, our lives are stressful. Yes. A lot of us are starting to use alcohol, or wine, or have, you know, always had been a social drinker but then now find ourselves in a situation with either maybe empty nest. Yes. a lot of women find, and I think this was the case for me too, is dealing with some of the symptoms of perimenopause and menopause. We start to- Yeah feel like we need a little more relaxation, we're a little s- more stressed out, you know. Yep. and we turn to wine for that 'cause we're like, "Oh, well, it helps, you know, it helps relax me." which is actually n- not true. We could get to that. Ooh. That's a myth that we can- W- okay bust, that, that alcohol actually is a stress reliever. But, and I, I work with so many women, we call them, I like, we call them- accelerator events- which is where something changes in your life. Like for me, it was that, high-stress managerial position- Yep coupled with MBA, coupled with- Yeah many oth- perimenopause at the time. Yes. Between 45 and 50. Yep. Or it could be divorce. Yep. Divorce is a big one. Big one, yeah. death of your spouse, empty nest I think I mentioned. Yes, yeah. Retirement. Yeah, yeah. Hello, now you can drink at noon and nobody cares. And it's, you know, pickleballs and, and- Yeah cocktails, and you know, these retirement communities are- Yeah are out partying. And, and all of a sudden- Yeah you see a shift in your drinking. All of a sudden you're like, "Oh, I'm drinking a lot more than I used to," and, y- something feels a little off here. Mm-hmm. And so it's just creating awareness around that. Yeah. But also what's really important to me- Yeah in my messaging out to the world is to create awareness with no shame, blame. Yeah. You know, without that worry that I had of, "Oh my gosh, what does this mean about me?" Because it doesn't mean anything about you. Yeah, it's okay. Mm-hmm. It's just how alcohol works in our brain and body. When we use it as a coping mechanism- for emotions we don't wanna feel, loneliness, for- stress, it starts to become more addictive- Yeah because we're relying on it, and our subconscious brain is like, "Oh, we need more of this." Yeah. Um, alcohol gives you a really high dopamine hit every time you drink. And, you know, Andrew Huberman had Anna Lembke, who wrote Dopamine Nation, on his podcast, and one of the things that they talk about is anything that gives you a high dopamine hit for low effort is addictive. Is, yeah. It- it- that's the definition of addiction is high dopamine hit, low effort. And you know, how hard is it to unscrew a wine bottle and pour it into a glass? Or- Yeah I like to say rip the cork out with your teeth. you know? Yeah, totally. Yeah. So it is a high dopamine, low effort habit, and it- it is addictive. It- it... You know, my husband recently... I've been now, alcohol-free and chose to live an alcohol-free lifestyle. It's not something that I require any of my clients to do, but that's what I do. my husband now, I'm almost six years alcohol-free, and this past February 8th, right after the Super Bowl, my husband has not drank since then. Okay. He's finally kinda coming around to wanting the he- for the health benefits, for the sleep benefits, for... He's working- Yeah on his weight. He's working on his health goals- and fitness. And he's like, "There's just... Yeah, it's not serving me." Yeah, there we go. Yeah. He also mentioned though, he goes, "How come we don't learn that alcohol's addictive? How come we don't learn this?" Well, I can guess why we don't learn it. 'Cause then there's gonna be a huge impact to that industry where we're not buying it anymore, right? Right. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like follow the money, as with anything else. Yeah. And, and who's telling us that we need alcohol to have fun, or that we need alcohol for every celebration, we must have champagne, and- you know, all the ads. There's been a lot of, you know, subliminal messages our whole life- around alcohol- and its use. And so we have- a lot of beliefs, thoughts and beliefs around alcohol that- Sure we believe. We- You know weren't, weren't- Yeah instituted by us, right, as individuals, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, or your family of origin. Yep. Um, that make it harder- Yeah to even think about taking a break- Yeah or even looking at your drinking. Right. Exactly, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Let's circle back, 'cause you did say, we'll get into that, where you were saying, the idea that, a drink of alcohol will make us more calm and subdued and help us just get through and just relax. Yes. Well, so it does, it probably does calm you, but, I was saying in rela- relation to is it a stress reliever? Oh, okay. Yeah. So, so the way that I coach, Mm-hmm and this is from the This Naked Mind methodology, is we, we wanna look at is the external evidence, like the science, and then your internal- experiential evidence to see is something true. We're always taking something that maybe we believe- Nice and being curious- Yeah just to say, "Well, is this really true?" So the external evidence around alcohol being a stress reliever is that alcohol is a stimulant. It's this unique drug that's a stimulant, and it's also a depressant. So our bodies, when they're trying to maintain homeostasis- because of the depressant nature of alcohol, releases adrenaline and cortisol in order to maintain homeostasis, which adrenaline and cortisol are stress hormones. Right. Stress neurotransmitters. And so then that is why we wake up with something l- you know, that maybe people don't have a word for, but what we call is hangxiety. You wake up with a little bit- of a hangover and anxious, or you wake up at 3:00 in the morning dehydrated and f- and your heart is pounding and you're feeling kind of anxious. And the unfair trade for that is that the calm or the euphoria, the buzz that we like, lasts about 20 minutes. The anxious feelings and the, the other chemicals that are poured into our body- last, like, three hours per drink. So then- Gotcha you know, every drink you have- you're compounding that. So the, so the truth, or the external evidence, is alcohol does create stress in your body. So then it creates this anxiousness that then oftentimes you find the next day you wanna relieve with more alcohol. Right. Yeah. So that's how- There's- you get into this vicious cycle that I, you know, that I felt like- I was in. It's like you wake up anxious going, "Ah, I'm not gonna drink," and then by the end of the day you want a drink because partially to relieve the withdrawal symptoms from alcohol- leaving your body, and to deal with the anxiousness. You're more anxious- Right. Right. Yep because of those chemicals in your body. So that's the internal experience. So then we wanna say, "Well, how do you feel when you wake up in the morning?" "Oh, yeah, I feel more anxious." And so we wanna- Yeah look at those kind of things. And as you do that, you can start to change your brain and go- "Oh, when I'm stressed out, maybe a drink isn't the best thing for me." Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it is a depressant, and it will shut off your prefrontal cortex basically, and it will, it- subdues your central nervous system. Mm-hmm so but is that really what you need- right in those moments? Do you need to be turning your brain off? You know? Yeah. When maybe you could problem solve, and there's so many other ways to actually relieve stress- Absolutely. Yeah in a more positive way, yeah. Well, and in ways that will give back to you, which will- Yeah be a longer term impact instead of this rollercoaster up and down, right? Yes. A short hit for waking up with more anxiety. And I love what you're saying around there are so many transitions that hit as we hit our mid-life years, right? And you've- Yeah mentioned a majority of them, and they are things that, yes, we kinda know about, but until you're in the throes of it, you have no clue until it's hitting you, and then you're like, "Whoa, wait a minute. Why am I crying? I don't know. I- what's going on," right? And so what you're sharing is so valuable because it allows us to tune back into ourselves. A, know that we're not alone, right? I think that's a huge piece for the women listening to our podcast. Listening helps us understand this is not you on an island. It is not that you are alone, and that's why these conversations are so important because it helps you see, well, I didn't realize that that's what alcohol does. It, it actually creates a necessity in my body because of the way that it, it, it mimics and tries to help me see this is what you need, this is what you need, and it's not you. It's what the alcohol, it does. So- Give yourself a break, ladies. Yeah. It's okay, right? Yeah. Yeah. You're... And that whole idea of being normal, that's what finally- Yeah set me free, is learning the science. It's like, wait, my body is behaving normally in- Yes response to an addictive substance. Oh, now I don't have to try to get back to being normal. I can just say, "Okay, I'm here. What do I wanna do about it?" Yeah. It's not my fault, but now it is my responsibility to decide- Yes what do I wanna do about it? How do, how do I want to handle this in my life? And what do I wanna change? and like my... You know, I said my husband, you know, was like, "It's just not serving me. It's, Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And, and explore that. And you can explore- Yeah it without saying forever. You can just say- Yeah now. You can just- Yeah explore it to see, well, how do I feel when I don't have alcohol in my system on a regular basis? And take a 30-day break, but take a break and not just hold on tooth and nail or white-knuckle it. Like, take a break and learn about your own habit. Yeah. Learn about what are my drink cues? What are, you know, what do... Am I using alcohol to solve... We, we call it what are the jobs I'm giving alcohol? And then when we fire alcohol from that job, what are we hiring instead? So, you know, breathwork. And it, and it sounds crazy 'cause people are like, "Oh, honey, you know, if I'm stressed out, breathing is not gonna help me. Like, you know, a glass of wine." But it's... But when you try it, you have to try it to see. Yeah, yeah. You know, I have clients who are like, "Oh, yeah, the breathwork works great. Once I do the breathing, I feel so much better." Go for a walk. Again, you know, just little things that actually do regulate your nervous system, not just conk yourself out. Like, you may as well be- Yeah I always say you may as well just hit yourself over the head with the empty bottle. Yes, right? It's like- For what alcohol's doing for you. Yes, it's conking you out. Yeah. But then the next day, you're still- It- You're left holding the bag, you know? Yeah, it's- You're not changing anything. Exactly. There's no resolution. Yes. There's no movement forward. You're stuck in that cycle and that loop- Yes that you talked about. You know, it's very interesting. Y- I'm smiling as you're saying, you know, you can do some breathwork, and you can go for walks. And last night, we had, a room of our own where we just opened up the doors, and women in midlife years enter, and we just come to be. And we literally start with breathwork, and what happens within 10 minutes is amazing. And we didn't do anything special other than focusing just on ourselves and just being present. Yeah, yeah. So powerful. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah, breathing is so good. I'm just feeling like- oh, even being, like, kind of... Yeah, I know. Uh, being on a podcast, you get kind of up, and I'm like, "Okay, I need to do some breathwork." Um, but- S- what I found in my life, 'cause you'd asked me a little bit about my story- Yes is that by drinking in order to resolve the stress and the burnout, it kept me in- Yeah a state of burnout, because I never did anything about the things that were burning me out. I just kept drinking to keep all the plates in the air instead of... And that's the benefit that I see so many women when we- they take a look at their drinking- make some changes, then they're like- and this is how I was. I was like, "I'm not doing that, that, and definitely not that anymore." Yeah. You know? And you just- Yeah you get your power back in some ways. Yes. I love that. You get, you take your power back, yes. You do. Yes, yes. You really do. Yeah. Instead of just going along to get along, and that was the kind of drinking I did. It was going along- to get along drinking. Ah, I don't wanna go do this. Eh, oh, good, they'll have wine. I'll just drink through it. You know? Yeah. And so many women are like, "I'm just not gonna do those things anymore." Yeah, yeah. If you need wine to get through it, maybe you just don't wanna do it. Right, yeah. W- take a bigger step back and start investigating, right? Yes. Start taking that lens of curiosity. Well, this is interesting. I go, and whenever I go, I don't feel good before I start, but, you know, it's like, wait a minute. I love what you're sharing. I absolutely love it. I also wanna come back to something you shared, that in your coaching, it sounds like, and help clarify this for our audience and for me, every individual that you work with, their journey is unique, even though there's a thread of, connectedness, because we're talking about alcohol and the addiction thereof. Yes what I did hear you say is that I don't say you have to stop drinking. That's not my mantra. Is that... Am I right on that? Yes, forever. Yeah. Forever. Okay. So the program I have is called the Freedom Formula. Yeah. It's eight weeks. The first two weeks we learn about our, we learn about how the habit loop is created. And then we just, we observe. When you go to drink- I want you to drink mindfully and observe. Okay, wait, what am I using this... How am I feeling, and what am I using- or what is the external cue? Oh, it's a sunny day and we wanna sit out on the deck and have wine. Okay, that's a cue. Or- it's Friday and I'm crawling to the finish line and I, I wanna have wine. So what are all your cues? Just to understand them better for the first two weeks. And then also learn some tools. Because at first, if when you take a break, you are gonna have the urge to drink, and so what are you gonna do with that? Right. And so learning some tools in order to get through the urge to drink. And- and then we're gonna take a break, because you- you do need to take a break in order to just see how you feel without alcohol in your system. Of course And there's no myth of perfection if, you know, if you drink during the break. We just say, "Okay, well, what happened? What was the cue there?" We learn from it. Right. and then at the end, there's a module on moderation if that's the, the way- that you wanna go. Some people say, "Yeah, this, I feel so good, I just wanna keep it going. Maybe not forever, but for now." Right. Yeah. So we never say forever. We always say just for now. And I feel like it's, it's just really important for each person to make their own personal decision about how- Yeah they want alcohol to be- in their life once they know more information. And sometimes, you know, women find out the information about alcohol, and they're like, "Forget it. It's a toxic-" Right "substance. I don't want it in my body-" Yeah "no more." Yep, yep. You know? And then that's, and that's great, but other people make a different decision. And for- a long time, I was exploring my drinking- and I was in rooms where, most people were sober or alcohol-free, and I always felt a little uncomfortable because I just- wasn't there yet, and I never want people to feel uncomfortable. You, you really have to get to wherever you wanna go on your own terms. Yeah. So, um, so that's how I work with people. And, you know, just continuing to increase your tools and, and continuing to- increase your, what I call a, well, it's a, it's a clinical term, but window of tolerance- for discomfort, basically. You know, 'cause usually we're drinking to feel a different- Right way. Like, we don't like how we- Right feel in the moment. Yep. And yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love how you meet people where they are. You have a structure that works because you're helping women do this for you, by you, because of you. So if you've been listening, right, you will know that there's something in your body that's, the little antenna is going up going, this has been interesting. I wonder..." And that's your private journey, right? Right. That's for the listeners to be able to go, "Okay. How do I find Susan?" Well, and the, and you can find me at my website, which is, susanlarkincoaching.com. And what I have there is a free resource for you just to s- Mm. It's called Skip the Sip, and it's just a way to take one night, and take- Mm-hmm it one night off drinking. And, and I, I call, I call it- Skip the sip the smart way, and I use the SMART acronym. You know, we all know- Yeah what that is, you know, from our- Yeah careers. Yeah. And so I use the SMART acronym to give you five steps in order to give you some tools- and sort of a plan for you to- Yeah skip the sip for one night. That's it. Yeah. So if you're not... But I wanna challenge you. If you're like me- Yes and more of a Friday night drinker and, like, taking, skipping the sip on Tuesday would be no problem. Yeah. I would say try- Whoo skipping the sip on Friday just to see- Yeah try it on a night that will be a little bit of a challenge. or practice it on Tuesday and then try it again on Friday. Uh- Nice and just try it one night and see how it feels for you to skip the sip and, and to understand a little bit about your habit and to take a little pause between the putting your purse and the keys down and grabbing the wine bottle and- seeing if you can, in that pause is where- Yeah we get our power back. Love that. In the pause, you get your power back. Yeah. Love that. Yeah. And who doesn't want that after everything else that's unraveling as women in midlife years that we've talked about, right? Yes. Yeah. 'Cause everything seems to be t- it's like the knitting, and the cat has found that thread at the end, and they're just yanking. You're like, "No, I've spent so many years putting all that together," and you're like, "Aah, another, another wave has hit," and you just don't know how to keep up. But- No, I- power's in the pause. I love that. Yeah, yeah. And I think that, you know, also one thing to keep in mind about women 45 and over- is especially once we're going through menopause, perimenopause and menopause- is our bodies- don't metabolism alcohol the same way- Yeah they used to. So you may even be finding that you're, you, two glasses a night, and you just really are like, "Wow, that really hit me hard. I feel so hungover," Yeah you know, the next morning, and it was only two glasses. Because our bodies as women, number one- we don't have the same enzyme in our liver to break down alcohol as men do. And we start to lose our water- Yeah as we get older, and so the alcohol's hitting us in a higher concentration in our body. So it can also just be you just don't feel that good anymore. Yeah. And it's, and that's okay to also take a look at your drinking. Yep. You know, just go, "I just don't feel that good." But- Yeah and, but because of what we've learned cultury, culturally, it's like, but it's not okay to, like, not drink. That's weird. Yeah. No, yeah. And it's, it's not weird. No. There's so many more people not drinking- than you realize. They just- Yeah you know, don't have time- Yeah for that crap. Yeah. You know? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Making decisions, right? Making decisions based on what's best for you, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, nothing- As a matter of fact, yeah, i- as a matter of fact, that's what we encourage because we're coming back home to ourselves, right? Yes. So beautiful. And then I find, and with like in my life and, and clients of mine- once you start to get your power back, and you start to feel good, and you- start to get out from under kind of a little- black cloud that alcohol kind of puts on your life just because of- the depressant nature of it- things just open up, and I find they, they just start doing amazing things. They write books, they change jobs, they, like I said, say, "I'm not doing that anymore," you know? And, and their lives just take off. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're feeling like you're in a little bit of a rut, and you're- Yeah you know, you're stuck in this rut, and you are stuck drinking wine every night, and that's kinda like the highlight of your night like it was for me it's like that's... there's something beautiful on the other side here for you. Yeah. It's not just- Yeah exploring. It's not just, it's not just removing something. It's actually what you gain on the other side. Yeah. Love that. Right? It's, it's uncanny how, how this just seems to work in so many women's lives. Yeah. Um, so. Well, a- and I- Right I, I... what I... what's coming through for me is that everything has its timing, and I think even our connection and our... and I was like, "Susan, let's get you on the podcast. This will be an important conversation for our guests," right, for our listeners. And it's exactly what's happening, is there's so many things, and you can get weighed down by it all, or you can take a step forward. You can listen to what we've been talking about and go, "You know what? I wanna try what she was referring to and trying one night and see what happens. I want to explore that just because I want to. Just because I want to. What's one night," right? Just one night. And so, right, try it, see what happens, and all of that information will be in our show notes. So Susan, what an incredible gift you are bringing to the world. Oh, thank you. I know that you had to come through the door of opportunity that presented itself for you by you because of you, and thank heavens you did that. And you've taken the opportunity to help more of us through doors that are waiting for us to witness, knock on, and open. So thank you for everything you do. Is there anything you would love to leave our audience with before we close our conversation today? Well, thank you so much for having me. I just wanna get the word out. You know, I say my mess became my message. That there's nothing wrong with you if you're struggling- Yeah with your drinking or wondering if I'm drinking too much. There is nothing wrong with you. And it's okay to take a look at it. And more and more people, now is the best time. There's so many- Yeah drink alternatives. The younger generation, Gen Z, is not really drinking that much, and it's kinda cool- Yeah to, to, you know, take a break from alcohol. It's kinda cool- to go do things alcohol-free. And there's so many o- options now when you go out. it's just a great time. It's a much better time than when I did it. Yeah. But... And that's being fueled by and being built by many of us who did change our drinking, and now we're like, "Hey, we want to have options. We wanna live." We're n- we're not hiding in the shadows. We're not anonymous. We're just- Yeah out here saying this, "We're living our best life." Yep. And, um, and then society and culture is starting to meet us. And so it's a really great time to explore your drinking. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much for everything that you have shared. Before we close, I do want to share something gently and very clearly. This November, we are creating a live in-person experience called Ignite the Inner Uprising. It's a two-day immersive gathering for up to 1,200 women in midlife years. And this is going to be phenomenal, where women are going to step into the room, and they are going to put down what doesn't serve them anymore, as we were discussing, and they're going to just be and tune back into who you are as a person, without all of the extra angst and heaviness that we carry day to day. So if something resonated for you in our conversation today, I invite you to join our waitlist so you can learn more about what is coming in November. And Susan, thank you so much for sharing everything that you did on our show today, and we will have all the information in the show notes on how to find Susan and get into her world. Thank you. Make sure that you remember there is power between the pause. I love that. In anything. Yeah. Absolutely. Make sure you thrive after 45, and go and do something for you, by you, because of you today