The "Trauma Lies" Keeping You Stuck in Midlife - with Ernest Ellender

Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Thrive after 45. I'm Denise Drink Walter heart whisperer, midlife mirror and mentor. And every week I am so honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories. So many possibilities of thriving beyond 45. Together we uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion. So what if healing from trauma wasn't just about talking it through, but about training for it? It is an honor and a privilege to welcome Earnest Ellen to thrive after 45. Earnest is known as the Black Belt Trauma coach. A life coach who brings 25 years of advanced trauma work with the embodied discipline of. Brazilian Jiujitsu. After 14 years as a clinical psychologist, he shifted fully into coaching, carrying with him decades of experience supporting those navigating. Complex PTSD and Deep trauma recovery. Earnest has worked directly with over 600 trauma clients and guided more than 800 students through martial arts training, where for many strength wasn't just physical, it was transformational. Ernest specializes in helping clients dismantle trauma triggers internalize. Lies avoidance patterns and confusion while building the grounded skills that healing actually requires conflict resolution, intimate communication, self-soothing, self-advocacy and discipline, self-care. This is a conversation about resilience, embodied strength. What becomes possible when we stop organizing our lives around survival? I cannot wait for our conversation today. So great to have you here, earnest. Thank you so much, Denise. What a wonderful intro. I appreciate that. I, I cannot imagine the ahas that your clients have had in ways that moving physically combined with releasing trauma. How powerful is that? Uh, the ahas are really fun moments. Those are like the exciting, you know, you know, at the end of the day it's like, oh, that was an exciting session. That was exciting. You know, those are really fun. Uh, you know, at the same time try to, uh, advocate for a lot of the grind. That's not so much of an exciting aha moment. Mm. But a learning these different. Skills and learning how to implement things in our life that lead to, you know, thriving improvement over time. So the aha moments are really wonderful. They're just really fun, you know? Yeah. Those moments of insight, like, ah, that's why I'm doing this this way. That's why this or that, right? Oh, it's a balance between that and. Kinda like the grind. Yeah. Self-improvement, grind. And, and for, from your experience, working with your clients, does the grind get them sometimes. Do they feel like, I don't think I can go, I, I'm done. Do they, does that ever come up? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's, that's a, it's a, a constant thing to monitor or to get, uh, acclimated that process. Like what does each individual need to have in play for their, on a weekly basis to keep them motivated and keep them feeling, uh, like it's a productive path. Right. Uh, sometimes it's focusing a little bit more, sometimes it's recording things that helps us see the progress that's hard to, mm-hmm. Just remember and think of. Yeah. Uh, and sometimes, so sometimes seeing it, sometimes we have to involve ourselves with other people, so we have that positive feedback from others. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then some people individually just do really well by themselves chugging along. So it's per individual, what do we need to fashion so that the grind doesn't actually feel like the grind. Yeah. It feels like an exciting journey of constant upward mobility. Right. You know, we tell little kids in Jiujitsu, we tell the parents if the kid's not enjoying the class mm-hmm. Then he's not gonna want to, he, she's not gonna wanna keep training. Right. So, you know, sometimes the parents are trying to coach'em, you gotta do this. You're doing that wrong, you're doing that wrong. It's like, whoa. If they keep training, they're gonna become really strong and really skilled if, right. But they have to enjoy it. And we're the same as kids if I don't. Enjoy it at all. Eventually I'm like, ah, forget this. I'm doing something more fun. You know? So in the beginning it's really challenging. That's a big part of the beginning, uh, beginning into like therapy world and coaching world and self-improvement is to shift from, I know I have to do this right to, well this, look at all these opportunities, look at all these possibilities. Let me get jazzed about it. Shifted into a, a, um, a celebratory process. Hmm. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And you know, that's something I talk a lot about with my clients is the celebrations. And usually what comes through when we say the word celebration. Oh, well there has to be a big milestone, right? It's like, no. Right. Daily. What are some of the daily things you suggest in cars that, that get them to celebrate it, you know? Exactly. It's a, it's a big, um, I don't know if it's a mind shift or a training or a combination of the two to notice the little things that you do every day without slowing down to recognize that's worth celebrating, you know? Um. Mm-hmm. Celebration. I, I don't know about what you find, but I know when my clients, it's like, well, I, I don't know. How do you celebrate that? Like it's just a block because celebration is such a big, it's gotta be the big thing. It's like, no, we celebrate the little pieces along the pathway. Every little step we get to celebrate, and you can do that Whatever way resonates with you, just like you spoke about earlier. Every person is individualized. So what is a good way for you to give back to yourself and go, Ooh, you know, that little self hug that felt good, you know? Yeah. So for myself personally, I, yep. I set little, uh, rewards for myself. At the end of the day, I've earned, I like to earn everything. So I've earned a, uh, extra espresso in the afternoon. I earned, uh, this or that little treat, you know, a little extra food thing, a little extra. So I like these little treats for myself, gifts for myself that I've earned. And, and while I'm enjoying it, I'm like, ah, that was a, reflecting on having succeeded there. Uh. You know, other people, uh, one for example, one of my friends, yeah, do a really great job of just congratulating themselves, like they'll be verbally out loud. Great job. Yeah. Thanks for doing that for yourself. You know, they have that positive conversation with self and it's like literally a, a, they hear themselves cheering themselves on. Great job. Thank you so much. Just, you know. Me of yesterday for doing this. It's, it's so, it creates this kind of fun self-talk, you know? Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I know, um, one of the things that I do a lot with clients is the whole self-talk realm because Oh my gosh, right? It's, yes. I mean, that's a, an entire training regimen, science, you have to, first we have to get the buy-in on it to comprehend. You are already speaking to yourself. Yes. You just not realize that you've been doing it in an intensely negative and Yeah. And, uh, often shaming or often disapproving Yeah. Fashion, like you have to, uh, like, like. Injure yourself into doing something good. Right. By, by verbally being rough with yourself. So when we can first recognize that's what's going on in the subconscious, or sometimes not even subconscious, actively saying it to ourselves. Yeah. Uh, kind of buy in. You've already been kind of brainwashed Right. By a lot of the unpleasantries in childhood. Yeah. And we're just creating a new relationship with that. Right. And our voice. Right. Yeah. So what are some strategies that you find work well in the general that would help with that? Like you shared the training that you've done over the years from childhood, um, to reevaluate reshift your self-talk so that it isn't as detrimental. Yeah. Okay. Well, the first would be just a general simplistic approach, and then there's the Sure. Much more detailed. I mean, right off, it's just what we almost, almost as we just said, is just acknowledge, I, I do have this self-talk going on with myself, and it's been large, largely negative. I mean, just think about positive or negative is what I've been telling myself today. Negative or positive. Right. And I'll have to balance it. So it's just a, uh, there's a balancing thing at first. Yeah. I can just say if for each negative come up with two positives and that's really challenging at first. Mm-hmm. Or even one to one just to get started. Just one to one. Where was that negative thing? You said slow down, stop for a second and think of a positive to, to category. Yeah. Yeah. It was just a continuous, and that can be generated, self generated. Just make it more positive. Right. That's it. You can do, you can do that for six months or a year and see tremendous improvement. Mm. Love that. Now the other is getting into the much more detailed cognitive, behavioral, scientific approach to how we think as human beings. Mm-hmm. So, uh. For example, towards the back of my book, I, a list in there the cognitive distortions that are uh, um, oh, name burns. The guy burns a long time ago who, who really promoted a lot of cognitive psychology, right. Focused a lot on these distortions that our brain does. Mm-hmm. So for example, all or nothing thinking right, is either perfect or either, either correct or it's incorrect, correct or incorrect. This can be a crippling cognitive distortion for myself and in my family. That's a strong one because there's a lot of perfectionism, a lot of high standards, high performance. Yeah. It produces wonderful high performance, but also produces a lot of anxiety is about not being perfect stress. Yeah. So if it's a, in that gray area, yeah. I. If I don't know what all or nothing thinking is, I'm just pre to it. I, I accidentally do it all the time and I yeah, think that nothing I'm doing is good enough'cause it's never perfect. There's always something we can improve. Of course. Yeah. And I always struggle with that as a kid. Just do your best. You can always do better. Yeah, I can always do better. So there's nothing is if by that rationale, nothing is ever good enough ever. You know? Yeah. So when we learn, oh, okay, well there's a sinkhole, nothing thinking, how is that implementing in my life? How do I practice, uh, this is good enough for this task, good enough for government work, good enough for Right. Uh, did I get the right amount? Not perfect. Did I get the right, put the right amount of effort into this project? Mm-hmm. I don't wanna distract from the more important projects from my family and things like that. Right. I'm trying to wash the dishes perfectly, or something silly. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So there's a, there's a whole science behind, uh, just learning these, these 10 or 12 or 14 depending on which, um, uh, program you look at, right? Of these cognitive distortions. And once we learn'em, I, I would love for us to have a curriculum for this, for kids to learn in high school. Yeah. It'd be wonderful around like, uh, freshman year and then again at senior year. Yeah. And just learn these cognitive distortions. This is how our brain, uh, distorts reality. Right. So that's for everyone, for sure. Mm-hmm. Then there's a second of these kinda scientific, deeper, um, kind of very detailed. And to the person, uh, important self-talk things to understand. And those are trauma lies. And trauma Lies are things, words, uh, sentences or statements Okay. That a child's brain came up with to survive the, the situation. Mm-hmm. So in a neglectful home environment, a young, you know, a 5-year-old may say, I need to be extraordinary to, to be worthy of attention. So either extraordinarily good, so you become perfectionist or extraordinarily bad, you become a little rebel to gain, to gain some attention from someone, right? So that, that, and that's what our child's brain came up with, and it's remains in that unc subconscious, but driving our behaviors. I need to be this, I need to be this, I need to be, in order to survive, I need to, there's another one for whatever our, um, each individual person. Does to survive as far as the survival responses like fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. In order to survive, I need to fawn the strongest person in the room or something like that. Mm mm-hmm. And so one, once we uh, slow down for a moment and figure out which one that is, right, then that can very much inform our self-talk. So in order to survive. I need to fall on other people in the room. Wait, no, no, no. I, that was what my five-year-old brain came up with. Now as an adult, my, my, um, life lesson, my, my life truth. Yeah. To, to replace that trauma I might be in order for me to thrive now, not survive. In order for me to thrive now, I must both believe in myself. Mm-hmm. As powerful and lovable and believe that others will be appreciative of that. Mm-hmm. That other people, there are people who will be appreciative of that. Right. Not everyone. Yeah. But there will be important people who will be appreciative of that. Yeah. And that sets the stage for a better, more positive self-talk as well as more positive, uh, interactions with other people. Absolutely. Ability to trust other people and to Yeah. Engage with them more deeply. So there's a, you know, so starting with that simple, yeah. I'm being too negative. Let me add a positive to the science of cognitive distortions and the science of replacing trauma lies with live truths. All those are the, uh, those are the types of self-talk that I usually focused most on. You get a lot of, you get a lot of distance just with being able to identify what am I, trauma lies from childhood, what do I do, what I've been doing to survive? Mm-hmm. Uh, and then. What am I, how has my brain been distorting reality to fit that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to be honest and, and tell me what your thoughts are on this, but to be honest, when we are in midlife thriving after 45. We are able with the maturity, with the experience of time, we are able to make these actionable steps and cognitive decisions on our behalf because we have lived so many, so many years that we can start to see, you know what? This is really not me anymore, and we can dive in deeper and stronger. Um, because we have the capacity to do so if we so choose. Yes. No, AB Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. The majority of my, uh, most successful clients are, are in their forties and fifties. Yeah. Okay. And I, I think it, I think it has to do with when we're young and, and surviving and we're just so young and resilient as human beings are remarkably resilient and tough. Very good point. Yep. So you just fight through everything and, and oftentimes the clients come in and they're. Either their kids are about to leave or college, that sort of thing. Yep. In their forties and fifties and they, life has slowed down enough Yeah. For them to say, you know what, I'm, something's just off. And I like things to be different and I have the time now I have a little bit more focus. Yeah. I, I have another 20, 30 years to go in my life and yeah. It's worth it for me to go and, uh. Uh, apply myself. Yeah. See what else is possible here. Love that. And those have been the best clients. You know, they, they, uh, yeah, they do come in with that wisdom, that experience of Oh, that's why my previous two marriages failed. Okay. Right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I just couldn't trust, but then also selected people who are not very trustworthy, you know? Right. Yeah. Okay. Knowing that it opens up a huge range of wonderful, exciting opportunities, exciting possibilities in the future. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, this is a, yeah, absolutely have tremendous opportunity Our. Our age. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And like our show talks about you're doing this for you by you because of you not from the vantage point of, well, everybody else needs this, so I guess I'll go do it. No, you have cleared your plate like you suggested. Mm-hmm. Some of the other things that you've been on the treadmill doing, just because that's what we do and who we are. But now we've got spots to open up in our lives to be able to give back to ourselves. Um, you've, yeah. You talked about your book. I want to know more about your book. I know that you've written a book. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Uh, then it's called, uh, this is How We Heal From Painful Childhoods, A Practical Guide for Healing Past Intergenerational Stress and Trauma. Hmm. And, uh, this book, uh, you know, there's a gazillion books out there on trauma recovery, and each one of them has stuff to offer. Uh, in my doctoral studies, I really drawn to. Complex PTSD trauma, like childhood trauma.'cause it was so complex and my, I, I enjoy the challenge of trying to figure stuff out. Yeah. And then I kept looking for a, uh, a total curriculum for it. Yeah. I was trying to wrap my head around this concept. Mm-hmm. You know,'cause there's so, there's so many facets to it. Yeah. And I just, in all the studies that I ran into, I couldn't find that whole curriculum. They would say, oh, for, uh, you know, trauma trigger when Pam gets triggered, these are the treatments for that, for schema therapy, how we view the world. These are treatments for that. But there was no, I, I wanted like a checklist, gimme a laundry list, gimme a, gimme a grocery list of the, all the variables I need to tend to. Mm. And because I didn't, I couldn't find that. That's what I. Set out to do. Mm-hmm. And eventually it was, it was initially like eight and I was trying to get it to like 10. Nice. 10, but 10 went to 13. And then year after year, it took me about six, seven years of, uh, working heavily with, uh, come complex PTSE clients and Right. Uh, trauma clients to, to fill this out. Right. It got up to 20, so there are 20 rules. Okay. 20 concepts. Mm-hmm. And basically we have to have a. A game plan for each of those 20. Okay. Each, each concept. Some are rather simplistic and some are more complex, but we want to have an answer for each of those 20. Okay. You know, so, uh, rule one for example, is just thrive or survive, you decide. Mm. And in that, in that rule, we understand a few concepts like. Most of us are surviving and we're kind of the, the concept there is I'm reacting to what's being put in front of me. Mm-hmm. And then thriving is, instead of reacting, it's me thinking about what I want specifically and going towards that. Mm-hmm. Okay. So it's how do we thrive? And this other concept important in that rule is the more detailed that thriving goal is mm-hmm. The easier it'll be to get there. We say, if, you know, if I'm gonna run a 5K, it helps to know where the goal line is. I'll get there much quicker, right? So rule one is thrive or survive. You decide, and we create that detailed image of what we, where we want to be, right? As a parent, as a spouse, as a individual in, you know, personal life and interpersonal and occupational, where do we wanna thrive? And then rule 20 is kind of at the very end of it. Yeah. It's called make it, make it normal. So how do we incorporate all these things that we learned into making it normal mm-hmm. The first year of somebody implementing a very meaningful change in their life. Like for example, we already talked about that positive self-talk. Right. The whole first year of learning that skill and learning the science and, and figuring out, okay, I'm gonna replace these trauma lies with life truths. Yeah. And then address the cognitive distortions that we're sustaining those trauma lies. Well, the, it takes a, I mean, a year, if you get decent at that, right. And then the next family event that you go to, if you buy some toxic family members at Thanksgiving Yep. For example, you're doing it as a new person. Right. And so it, it takes a long time to make that normal, right? Like how do we make that the, the new me, the new me is no longer self shaming and toxic. The new me is very functioning out of stable self-love, self consideration, self-respect. So it's kinda thing, picture, you know, rule number one. Yeah, where's that goal line? Where's the thriving area we're gonna live in? Right? And then 20 is how do we make that normal? Right. And basically rules two through 19 are the obstacles and goal and, and, and Sure. Pathways to get there. Yeah. Love that. Love that. I love how you've broken it down in the ways that make sense for us to be able to grasp it instead of it being, oh, out here. It's actionable. It's, it makes sense and I appreciate that so much because a lot of what I see out there is one lane. Here it is. But what I'm hearing from you is. Yeah, this is what's possible. Where do you wanna come at it from? What makes sense for you as an individual in your environment, in your experience, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, very much so. Yeah. And, and some of the details of the, that, that, how do we get there specifically? Yep. Is, comes a lot from my martial arts training of course. Where everything is so detailed and it's so technical. There's, it's so technical. And it's a, a lot of times it's difficult to, uh, get that from these abstract concepts. I need to love myself. Okay, well, how, yeah, I mean, rule number eight, practice treating yourself in a self-loving, self-respecting fashion, but how, yeah, it's a really important rule, important chapter. A lot of my clients who have, you know, in order to survive, I must serve the stronger person in the room. So there's not been a self focus, it's always a, it's focused on the other. Yeah. So when they're practicing self-love and self-respect, sometimes we gotta start from the ground up. Like, what are you eating? How are you sleeping? How are you treating yourself with food wise? You know? Mm-hmm. How are you treating yourself with sleep? How are you treating yourself with, with the words you sell yourself? It's, it's like a, it's a, how do we change that very specifically? So I like putting those, those action plans and very specific. Yeah. Um. Like, what do I say to myself very specifically? Yeah. You know, uh, the thought records and things like that. Yeah. So, uh, that's where the martial arts came into the coaching world as far as, yeah, I needed to be detailed. Yeah. And that's where professionals come in. Coaches and therapists of course. For a lot of times, especially in the beginning when we, we read a great book and like, okay, I understand the concepts. I I need a little help. Uh, yeah, I, you, we can apply some of it. And that's what I've, I've been learning, uh, I thought once I published the book and boom, there you go. Yeah, it's all yours. It's not that easy to implement it. Yeah. Yeah. That's where we can use some help oftentimes. Absolutely. I was just gonna ask, it was a couple years ago, right? That you published the book and I was curious to know. Yeah. Just under two years. Yeah. So what have you learned since, um, you published the book? Uh, well, a bunch. I mean, initially just clinically, uh, since I've kind of Yeah. My clients who use, who, who actively work in the book with me. Yeah. What I've learned is it is even more difficult than I thought to just apply the stuff. Yeah. It's, it's, so much of this stuff is so confusing. It's hard to emphasize which rules are most important to focus on at different times and Sure. So it was. It is, we just need some help in the beginning especially. Yeah. I love that. So a lot of my clients who had, who had, uh, also a lot of my clients who had had a little bit of therapy before, yes, they did really well and kind of quickly because they were already acclimated to discussing difficult things to discuss. Right. Hearing a little bit of feedback and being okay with that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And even just trusting a, a therapist or a coach who's done right by them. So that they're, uh, like a student, a, a more practiced student of, of life. Yeah. I love that. Yep. So clinically, I realize it's a little more, it's even more challenging than a thought to act, to just apply rules from a book or apply concepts from the book to one's life. Yeah. Uh, and then. On a personal level, I, I, this was a major thing for me'cause it's been, yeah. Took me like seven or eight years to finally publish this thing. Absolutely. Six or seven years of producing the, the curriculum itself. Yep. And then another few years to publish it. Yep. So in these two years since then, uh, working with my clients, I, I realized I also enjoy a lot working with other coaches and therapists. Hmm. I, you know, recently worked with a, a business coach who's kept asking me the same question. Who's my ideal client? Who's my ideal client? And I, I really felt like once I published that book, I'm like, good. Okay. I can actually die a happy man now because I, I really worked hard to produce this to help people. Yeah. And put it out there and it's done. Yeah. So now it's, it's there. So it's, it's in print. It's available for people to use. Great. Right. So at this. Now I'm 52. I'm deciding, well, what did I want the next 20 years of my work life to be like? Mm-hmm. I do always want to keep working directly with clients'cause it's a, it's exciting and b, as gratifying and c, it's, uh, keeps me growing and grounded. Yeah. And I, I work on the same stuff. I apply the same rules to myself. Mm-hmm. You live what you preach, you learn it better. Yeah. And it's been tremendous personal growth. But moving forward, so I always want to keep some individual clients. Mm-hmm. And then, but I also have really enjoyed starting to work more with, like I said, coaches and, and, and therapist. Mm-hmm. I like helping people just find the, the easiest or most efficient path to something. Right. Yeah. I'm a big fan of shortcuts and Yeah. Yeah. You have a shortcut. We can do that. That is real and it works. Yeah. Great. Absolutely. You have some wonderful shortcut treatments. Yeah. And then there's also the grind and I, I kind of specialize in helping people with the grind part. Mm-hmm. I'm very patient and supportive. Right. I do like that. Yeah. But it's fun working with a lot of, a lot of like the, uh, the therapist and new students and new, um. Yeah. New coaches are, they're really hungry. They're really, uh, right nerd out on the content, and that's just, uh, I, it's intellectually engaging for me. Absolutely. So, yeah, I would love to have roughly 50 50 there, you know, half Yeah. Regular clients, half uh, therapists of coaches. Yeah. And then also I, I, as traumatic as it was for me to finish and publish that book. Yeah. It was quite a process. Yeah. Uh, I really enjoy the writing, writing of it, trying to express it out in a way that people can understand. Mm-hmm. And I'm working on books two and three at the same time. It is kinda like, uh, companion books to the, to this one. Perfect. Yeah. This book is more like a manual. Yep. Like here, here's a manual, uh, step 1, 2, 3 to all go to 20. Right. Uh, another one will be a companion book for it. That's like a workbook. And then third will be a case studies. Oh, nice. Drawn from, yeah, drawn from real life to Yeah. That are more, more engaging to read, more fun to read. Sure. Through more like narrative format, you get to learn about eight different characters. Right. And how these concepts played out in their individual worlds. That and relationships. Yeah. So I'd like to read, I, I, I like to write more. Yeah. So I, I now post publishing. I'm in this process of really. Shifting my, uh, yeah. Future career goals and my new thriving and, and isn't that empowering as the listeners are listening, going, Hey, he's not done yet either. There is no finish line for those of us who have a desire to do what we've been put here to do, whatever that may be. It's always about learning, isn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. There's this woman, uh, in my, in our, in my, I got to the doctoral program and. She was, I forgot she was between 65 and 70. She was like almost 70 years old in the doctoral program in a five year doctoral program. Right on boy. And, and I waited, I, I, you know, raised in South Louisiana, be very polite. I waited until I knew her a little bit more, and finally the moment came and I was like, I'm so curious that you're excited to do this now. It's such a costly, I mean, the students alone. Sure. It's expensive. Yeah. Lengthy. It's very challenging. Yeah. I said, but what brought you to, uh, to do this? And she said, I appreciate you asking. She said, I, uh, she said she had basically, by the time she retired a little bit early for she had achieved all of her occupational goals. She had she'd done this, she'd done that. She was successful. Yeah. She was done, but she wasn't done. She's like, yeah, she said, I, she just always wanted to. People in a more direct fashion. Mm-hmm. Uh, instead of like kind of the hardcore business world. She Sure. Yeah. And with her wisdom. Yeah. From being so successful throughout her life, she had a lot to offer people. I can only imagine. I mean, she just stuck out in my head ever since. Like, wow. Right. It's, ah, that's so inspiring. So I know this job I can do into my seventies and even eighties, you know? Yeah, of course. I don't see ever wanting to stop. Yeah. So remembering her, it's like, oh, I, I just to get to where she was, I got another 15, 20 years. Yeah. 15, 20 years of helping people however we we want before I'm even in that range Abs absolutely wish starting. Yeah. Very inspirational. Love it. Love it. And that's, that's what drives a lot of us in life is that, you know what? I know there's an inner calling, there's more, and it's something that I want to uncover, explore, and expand upon. So you're doing exactly what our audience is, is what thirsty for showing people. There is no finish line and. So happy with everything that you've been able to bring to our conversation today and your book sounds amazing, so we're gonna make sure all of that information is always in the show notes. Yeah. Excellent. Okay. Very cool. Is, is there anything is, we're getting prepared to close, is there anything in particular you would love to share with the audience that you haven't shared yet to help us really tune into what's possible? As we thrive after 45. Oh wow. Okay. I mean, rule number four shows up. It comes to mind, which is we must slow down to speed up. Mm. And as we just constantly slow down and just think about things more slow down to speed, slow down, we, we speed up towards our long-term goals and thriving. So it's so let slow down and listen to these podcasts that focuses on that future thriving. Slow down and think about, you know, a lot of times we put down one book and pick up the next and say, whoa, hold on. I didn't digest it. Slow down and think about what you just read. Slow down and think about the conversation we're having right now. Take a deep breath. Yeah. Yeah. Slow down and think about it. So yeah, there's that process and in the process of our life slowing down for a moment to consider some of the baggage and blockades blockages Yeah. That our childhood has, has kind of placed mm-hmm. In our lives. It can be very fruitful. So that, that's my realm of expertise of focus is it's very much worth it to slow down. And just do a little inventory. Uh, you can go to any, just about any therapist who has any focus on childhood trauma stuff and say, you know what? I don't even know why I'm here, except to say I want to slow down and just, I want you to help me understand a little bit how my childhood might have, might still be blocking me somehow. Right. Help me just understand a little bit better how it might've affected me. Mm-hmm. You walk in and any therapist's office. Six months later, you'll walk out with renewed understanding and having some of those blockages removed. Mm-hmm. So that you have a more efficient path towards that thriving future you'd like. So I, I, that's, I guess that would be the most I important thing I'd say is it's worth it to slow down for a moment. Yeah. Yeah. And if you haven't already. They have awesome if they haven't already. Mm-hmm. It is worth it to spend a little time in that childhood playground, re reorganizing things. Love that. Love that. And I really love how you share, um. In the playground. It's not a fault. It's not something you need to go back and fix. It's where you are now and a deeper understanding of what the blockages could be so that you can create that new path to move forward. Right. I love that. Yeah, very much so. Yes. Yeah. Thank you so much for your wisdom. Can't wait to check out the book. Ah, thank you so much Denise. And thank you for the wonderful work. The what? Wonderful podcast to constantly have every, you know, and so it is a battle of trying to overwrite that bad, that bad programming, the childhood negativity and, no, no, no. Yeah. These are these podcasts, like yours maintains a consistent focus on that future, current and future. Yeah, yeah. What's going on? Let's look at other opportunities. Yeah, exactly. It's part of the positive brainwashing, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Let's do it. So thank you. Yes. Keep it going. I, I will not, I don't see a finish line because I absolutely love these conversations. I learn so much through them as well. So it's an honor and a privilege to meet so many incredible guests like yourself. Otherwise, we would never have met. I know it. There's no way. No. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I believe yes, correct. Yeah. Yeah. Um, before we do close, I want to share something with the audience. Um, this November I'm actually hosting a very live in-person event. We're calling it Ignite the Inner Uprising, and it's very much what you've been speaking of, taking that pause. And being, we are providing a space for a two day experience where we're going to do exactly that. We're gonna pause, we're gonna sit, we're gonna be, we're gonna put questions out, we're gonna do all the things where we're gonna shut down everything outside and just come in for our inner uprising. Um, it's really an extension of these types of conversations that we have in this. Incredible show that I love so much, and it's where we're gonna reflect and that's going to become the embodiment where insight becomes integration. Women will have held so much for others. So we're gonna gather together and stand fully in our own sovereignty. So if something happened today that stirred deep inside of you, I know it did for me. If your body leaned in. We don't believe that's because of an accident. The wait list is open. So if Ignite feels like something your future self would say, thank you for, I invite you to put your name on that wait list. The link will be in the show notes, and as always, make sure you follow share. Leave a review so that more women can find these incredible conversations. There will be, and there is a place for us to gather. Thank you again, Ernest, for such a great conversation. So much wisdom. Oh, thank you. And I'm so glad you are continuing that writing'cause I know it's going to be a beautiful combination to what's already been started. There's something deep within you that's telling you this is important work, so keep doing what you're doing. Yeah. Thank you so much for the encouragement, Denise. I appreciate it. I was soaking it up. I really appreciate it, ab Absolutely, absolutely. Have a great day everyone, and make sure you thrive after 45.