Feb. 26, 2026
What Pressure Reveals: Leadership Lessons from an Avalanche Rescuer - with Caroline Elliott
Caroline Elliott spent over twenty years in ski rescue and mountain rescue units, literally working on the front lines of avalanche response with her dog, Fjord.
Imagine being in a situation where the stakes are life or death and every second counts. That is where she learned what it truly means to lead and communicate when the pressure is on.
We did a deep dive into how those high stakes moments in the mountains actually reveal who we are.
Caroline shares how she is now taking all that intense lived experience and using it to help business teams find their footing when things get unstable. We talked about the importance of psychological safety, the power of a "gut brain," and why kindness and respect are non-negotiable, even when you are facing a literal or metaphorical storm.
One of my favorite parts of our chat was hearing about her bond with her dogs. She has such a beautiful way of looking at partnership and trust that we can all learn from.
Whether you are leading a team at work or just trying to navigate a stressful season in your own life, Caroline has so much wisdom to share about stepping back when you see a red flag and trusting your own internal intelligence.
You can find more about Caroline and follow our journey here:
Website: www.carolineelliott.me
Social Media: https://www.instagram.com/carolineelliott.me/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroline-elliott-aabb8117/
Thank you for spending time with me today on the Thrive After 45™ podcast! If this episode spoke to you, be sure to hit that follow button so you never miss one.
And if you loved it, I’d be so grateful if you left a review - it helps more amazing women like you find this show!
Your journey doesn’t stop here - let’s keep the conversation going! Connect with me at denisedrinkwalter.com, and follow @thethriveafter45podcast for daily insp, tips, and support.
Remember, midlife isn’t the end - it’s just the beginning of a new, exciting chapter! Keep thriving, keep shining, and I’ll see you next time!
WEBVTT
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Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Thrive After 45.
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I'm Denise Drinkwater, heart whisperer, midlife mirror and mentor.
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And every week I am absolutely honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests.
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Whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45?
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Together we'll uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion.
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What do you discover about yourself when there is no room for panic performance or pretending only presence?
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Truth and decisive action.
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It is such an honor and a privilege to welcome Carolyn Elliott to our show today.
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Caroline has spent over 20 years in ski rescue with more than a decade inside specialist mountain rescue units working directly in avalanche response as a search.
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Rescue dog handler where pressure is real.
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Communication must be very clean, and leadership is revealed in seconds.
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This is lived experience.
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Not theory.
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And today she is an international keynote speaker and author carrying those same principles from the mountains into the worlds of snow, safety, leadership, and high pressure performance.
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She has impacted thousands of lives from children.
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Discovering mountain Safety through her book, fjords Mountain Mission, inspired by her avalanche dog Fjord and now translated into four languages to adults and leadership teams learning how to function clearly when conditions are unstable and the stakes are really high.
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Most recently, her work has expanded into guiding business teams, translating the realities of.
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Avalanche rescue into practical frameworks for decision making, communication, and trust under pressure.
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She is also in the developmental phase of something very rare, avalanche simulation camps where teams are deliberately placed under pressure not to be tested.
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But to be revealed, because pressure really doesn't create who we are.
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It actually ends up showing us exactly who we've been all along.
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Welcome to our show today, Caroline.
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I can't wait to have this conversation with you.
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Thank you so much, Denise.
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It's, it's, I've been really looking forward to this.
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It's been great.
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Thank you.
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We have to start with your picture.
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We have to start with your picture in the background is that Fjord?
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Yeah, that's, um, Fjord, bless him when he was, um, on the way to an avalanche training.
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So that's him going full on, uh, to the, is it left of me?
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Yeah.
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Depends what you looking at the screen.
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Yeah.
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So that's, that's fjord in full flight mode, so to speed.
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Um, so yeah, no, no.
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Uh, great dog.
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Great dog.
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Um, and yeah, the big snow mountain behind me is a, a peak in the Pyrenees, actually a volcanic peak.
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So yeah, no very snow mountains.
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Um.
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Yeah, beautiful place.
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Love it.
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But, um, potentially very dangerous, but yeah.
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I totally, mm-hmm.
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Tell us, how did you get to where you are today?
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Were you always a skier as a kid?
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Like, tell us a little bit of your story so we can really understand Caroline.
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Mm-hmm.
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Where she is today.
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Yeah.
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And the incredible capacity you bring to teams.
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Yeah.
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So I, um, I started skiing at the age of 10.
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Um, I was a gymnast before, so I started gymnastics very, very young.
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And, um, it was just a natural, um, transition from gymnastics onto skis.
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Um, balance was there and I was lucky to have a, a, um, a very kind of genuine, um, family.
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And dad was like.
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Take Karen off skiing to my mom and my dad did not like snow at all.
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Um, so she took me off to Marybel.
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Okay.
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We were quite well known resorts in the Alps and um, I learned to ski and didn't look back.
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Um, I absolutely adored it.
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Um, yeah, the snow, the cold, um, and I think also my capacity, uh, physically to actually take to it like a abductor water.
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Yeah.
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Um, and yeah, mountains on my happy place, so.
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Mm-hmm.
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And then that progressed onto, um, do not laugh, ski ballet.
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So I did ski ballet.
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Oh wow.
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My Walkman and my, my hair at the end.
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Oh yeah.
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I love it.
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I can see it.
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I know.
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And there was a very, very, very, I was not at a very high level.
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There was something called Julia Snell.
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Um, she actually came to living in Canada, um, and I believe she married a Canadian.
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And, uh, she was like up there.
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Um, I was kind of doing it nationally, but um, I loved it.
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I either kind of, um, took a kind of like, um, what do you call it?
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Um, the wells into a, splits into a kind of like arms in the air, and it was just so eighties.
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I loved it.
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So yeah, it was good.
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Yeah.
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And then after that, ski instructing and then from ski instructor decided that I love children and I love instructing children, but I wanted to, I've always wanted to help people.
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So that's kind of the ongoing thing for me.
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It's helping people.
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Sure.
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Sure.
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Is so my weird thing dropping out on me.
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Oh, that's okay.
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You know what?
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Things happen and we just carry on.
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We, I'm just used to kind of just dealing with the situation.
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It occur, it's always, Caroline is plan B as in like is not good to plan as we trained it.
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Let's go with plan B oh, plan C, plan D, or whatever, so, right?
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Mm-hmm.
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Flex flexibility.
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With probably with what you do, you're, you're talking life-threatening situations.
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Yeah.
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So when we introed and talked about seconds count, um, I can only imagine that added stress that that puts on the team as a whole.
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How does that, how does that play out?
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Um, because, um, we do know, I mean, statistically there is, is studies done where we say 15 minutes, you've got a very good chance of survival in an avalanche.
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So if you're not actually where that place is, um, where the avalanche has occurred, you know, the time to get in, there's gonna start ticking from whether it's a, um, a transporting with a, a chairlift or with.
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The road transport or a helicopter.
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So you are under incredible amount of pressure.
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Um, and from a dog handling point of view, you've got to be really careful with that pressure because if you are bringing your stress levels up, your dog is gonna know immediately.
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And Fjord knew.
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I mean, Fjord knew immediately and you have to try and remain as calm as possible.
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And once that uniform goes on, that red unit was like a bit like not a Barbie.
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I used to have a uniform for Ski Charlie, uniform for fire brigade, uniform for, yeah, it was kind of changing uniforms.
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But Fjord had the capacity.
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Dogs do have the capacity to know whether it's sounds or visions, or once they know uniforms on, they know exactly what they're going to do.
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Um, and yeah, um, you go into that situation and you to be really very honest and I smile to this day'cause I'm back with another team not doing avalanche rescue, but I'm back with Cleave Rescue and there's always gonna be dynamics which are.
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Yeah, tricky should we say.
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Yeah.
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And when you're going in for the avalanche, you've just gotta put everything to the side and there's no way, I dunno if you don't get on with Jean Paul or whatever his name is, or, or, um, Julie, um, yeah, that you've just gotta do it.
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You've just gotta do it to actually get the result at the end of the day.
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Yeah.
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Um, that's what is very, very, um, complex.
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Um, oh, I bet not just.
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It's not just the mission, it's actually Yeah.
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Communication with people who potentially you, you, you, you don't really wanna spend time with, but hey.
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Yeah.
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But, um, yeah.
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And knowing that you've got someone's lives in your hand Yeah.
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And so to speak.
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Yeah.
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And, and so how in the world do you, um.
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Take that situation where, you know, you've got people now, do you as teams, do you know each other really well or do they just come together and you've just gotta kind of get to know each other super fast?
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How does that work?
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I mean, you train throughout the year, I mean the team dog team over about seven, eight dog dog handlers and you're training throughout the year.
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Um, but there are some stuff which I won't go into, which happened in my team, which was pretty toxic.
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Um, okay.
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And this is the iron of it all is you're actually there to help people, but you're actually not helping each other by certain behavioral, right.
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Um, traits.
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Yes.
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Um, so you do train, so you do understand how other people, um, react.
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Um, and I'd say a lot of the time you've got to be, um, very, very open-minded and very kind towards your other teammates because we all react differently under stress and pressure.
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Yeah.
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Um, and coming together as an a fusional team takes so much tweaking.
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Um, it just doesn't happen like that.
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Yeah.
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Um, so yeah, it takes a long time.
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Um, now I'm in a resort whereby I've been pushed together in a team for a certain sector and I'm getting to know everyone how they function and slowly but surely, and then the old politics are coming up all the time and I kind of like.
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Yeah.
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I don't think at the end of the day my work's gonna be any better from being, you know, in this kind of mindset.
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So kind of step to be functioning.
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Sometimes you need to do the noise.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Very, very, very, very complex.
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Um, fascinating.
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I mean, fascinating.
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That's why I'm, I'm going further into the whole, um, yeah.
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Side of things.
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Exactly, because.
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There are teams that you are now expanding your capacity.
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Thank you for doing this work.
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So moving into other teams, not just around the ski community, let's say, but you are taking your skillset that you've.
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Developed and learned and showing how people can succeed in teams when there is such a disconnect amongst in between.
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Mm-hmm.
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All the players, right?
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah.
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And I mean, it's not just in the, in the rescue world, I think it's in any team.
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Hence my, um, really, really kind of, uh, motivated to develop the avalanche simulation clinics because it can actually help teams, um, kind of take off the, you know, the kind of superficial side of potentially what you might get in a, in a closed office environment and bring out right.
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Potentially the worst, but the best at the same time.
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So sometimes it takes a while to, you have to expose areas which are not working and work on them.
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You know, that's what exactly.
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Um, so yeah, it's, yeah.
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It's, uh, with the concept of understanding that what you wanna do is betterment for all and the, and the bottom line at the end of the day.
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Right.
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So in order to do that, you have to create.
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Exposure to things that people wouldn't normally be exposed to.
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But like we talked about in the intro, it brings up the natural tendencies of individuals so that they come to the forefront.
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And then you can, yeah, okay, here's the real behind the pretty, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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And there's another element which I, um, am very, very.
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Um, focused, and I feel that there's an element which we need to, to look, uh, a lot harder at is psychological safety within teams.
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Because there's a lot of elements whereby, um, people won't, whether it's to do with pride or whether ego, they won't say they're not doing well.
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So if there's a team are working on a project Yeah.
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And you might know, I mean, it's about having a buddy, having a, a person who checks in on you.
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So in emergency services.
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You know, uh, we can get, um, fallout, you know, a couple of days, a couple of weeks, even a couple of months later where things will hit us in the Yeah.
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You know, in the face, so to speak.
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And I think the same thing can occur in, in business or any other type of groups whereby someone's not doing too well and sometimes people won't even know.
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Well probably potentially notice small traits of behavior have changed.
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Right.
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Um, so I think, um.
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Going and put yourself in a stressful situation.
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Yeah, maybe.
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'cause I've done it all my life and I do love it.
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I do love it to an extent.
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But, um, I think it brings out that side of people which can then be worked on, whereas you're never gonna get that, you know, right.
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During normal team building kind of activity out in the forest, paint balling or whatever you wanna do.
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Right, right, right, right.
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So this is the next level.
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Of team interaction that really uncovers truths in order to be able to come together in a different way.
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Right?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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For sure.
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For sure.
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Yeah.
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So, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So when you look back across your years in avalanche rescue, let's say, mm-hmm.
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What did the mountains teach you about people that no training ever could have?
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Mm-hmm.
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Uh, the mountains have always taught me that it's about having respect for that, that environment.
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Um, I say I call her, she the mountains for me.
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Yeah.
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Um, she's incredibly beautiful.
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Um, but she's got a bit of a mischievous side to her.
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And if you don't respect all the signs, um, which have been provided to you on a daily or hourly basis, she'll trip you up.
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Mm-hmm.
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But then at the end of the day, it's not her fault, it's our fault because we've been given, we've been given everything.
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And I've seen it on a, you know, a, you know, weekly luckily, but a regular basis in, for example, in the Alps, um, people are given all the signs to kind of keep away from certain areas, or they're advised not to go somewhere and they.
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We'll go back and, um, yeah, so for me it's respect.
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Respect and and, and recognizing and, and opening our eyes.
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And also we talk about gut instinct a lot of the time and people say, yes, you don't go gut instinct, but the second brain, and I am a person whereby I realize that when I think start ringing big, big red bells in my head, it's because my knowledge, which I've acquired through the years has actually given me mm-hmm.
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That, um, kind of, um.
00:15:26.241 --> 00:15:29.361
Uh, intelligence to know that something is not quite right.
00:15:29.481 --> 00:15:29.511
Mm.
00:15:30.052 --> 00:15:37.192
And it's then to step back, um,'cause you can end up playing a game of, of, of, you know, um, you know, roulette.
00:15:37.402 --> 00:15:38.001
Um, yeah.
00:15:38.096 --> 00:15:38.386
Yeah.
00:15:38.451 --> 00:15:41.392
It might not go, but it might go in the way we're talking about avalanches.
00:15:41.392 --> 00:15:42.591
But, um, so, yeah.
00:15:42.621 --> 00:15:42.861
Yeah.
00:15:43.611 --> 00:15:46.162
Um, as I saying, respect is a big thing, you know?
00:15:46.282 --> 00:15:46.971
Yeah.
00:15:48.052 --> 00:15:50.721
Thank you for those words, because what.
00:15:51.147 --> 00:16:00.086
What I heard really loud and clear, which really resonated with me, is when those red flags go up, you step back.
00:16:01.001 --> 00:16:08.711
I think our natural propensity is to go in and resolve, whether you're talking about, you know, oh, there's a challenge.
00:16:08.711 --> 00:16:10.542
I need to meet that challenge, right?
00:16:10.572 --> 00:16:10.662
Mm-hmm.
00:16:10.991 --> 00:16:21.611
But to step back and show that respect, so we're talking about mountain, but I can see this clearly aligning with teams and people and self, you know?
00:16:21.611 --> 00:16:21.701
Mm-hmm.
00:16:21.942 --> 00:16:24.432
Our show is about for you, by you because of you.
00:16:24.432 --> 00:16:27.881
When you get that second brain that Caroline just.
00:16:27.956 --> 00:16:30.657
So eloquently spoke about in the gut.
00:16:31.496 --> 00:16:31.706
Mm-hmm.
00:16:31.736 --> 00:16:41.907
We, as women in midlife years are I think taking more time to step back and go, wait a minute, no need to rush to get this done.
00:16:41.907 --> 00:16:43.976
What's being told to me right now?
00:16:44.006 --> 00:16:45.567
What is happening?
00:16:45.567 --> 00:16:46.616
What's going on?
00:16:46.736 --> 00:16:47.246
Yeah.
00:16:47.606 --> 00:16:47.996
Yeah.
00:16:47.996 --> 00:16:48.567
For sure.
00:16:48.572 --> 00:16:52.616
And ironically, the human nature is to go towards.
00:16:53.381 --> 00:16:57.701
Um, I mean, if you have an accent on the road, people will naturally stare to it, right?
00:16:57.701 --> 00:16:57.792
Yes.
00:16:58.182 --> 00:17:06.791
So we are drawn towards this whole, um, sort of disaster, kind of, we're drawn towards things which are red.
00:17:07.392 --> 00:17:07.541
Yeah.
00:17:07.541 --> 00:17:07.602
Um.
00:17:08.711 --> 00:17:22.211
It's kind of also this whole, I say see again in the mountains, uh, a lot of people will say, oh, and we actually had the case of this, it was actually a very sad case of an avalanche where a 14-year-old child remained under, um, he had a GoPro.
00:17:22.211 --> 00:17:24.942
It filmed all his, well, the whole thing.
00:17:25.451 --> 00:17:29.711
Um, and the whole thing was, oh yeah, we go here every year, we go to the same place.
00:17:29.951 --> 00:17:31.451
It's the same slope we go on.
00:17:31.451 --> 00:17:31.541
It's.
00:17:31.912 --> 00:17:35.422
Outside of the resort, but there's always, there's, there's always, um, tracks.
00:17:35.721 --> 00:17:36.531
Tracks are there.
00:17:36.531 --> 00:17:37.102
They're fine.
00:17:37.102 --> 00:17:37.642
They've got through.
00:17:37.642 --> 00:17:43.102
So again, you're paying that, that's, you, you, you're playing with a, a very high risk level.
00:17:43.132 --> 00:17:43.192
Yeah.
00:17:43.192 --> 00:17:47.991
So it is about evaluating what you have in front of you, and there's always another day, isn't there?
00:17:48.201 --> 00:17:49.432
So, mm-hmm.
00:17:49.521 --> 00:17:49.912
Yeah.
00:17:49.942 --> 00:17:53.842
It's, um, yeah, and I, and again, you know, there's loads of stories like that.
00:17:53.842 --> 00:17:54.801
So yeah.
00:17:54.801 --> 00:17:58.132
As we say, the red sit back and enjoy the color.
00:17:58.902 --> 00:17:59.172
Right.
00:17:59.981 --> 00:18:00.791
I love that.
00:18:00.791 --> 00:18:01.451
Yes.
00:18:01.991 --> 00:18:02.771
Yes.
00:18:02.771 --> 00:18:03.281
Red's great.
00:18:03.342 --> 00:18:04.031
I love red.
00:18:04.392 --> 00:18:04.662
Yeah.
00:18:04.902 --> 00:18:06.281
Take, take your time.
00:18:06.311 --> 00:18:07.122
Take your time.
00:18:07.122 --> 00:18:10.271
There is no rush to a finish line, right?
00:18:10.392 --> 00:18:10.872
Yeah.
00:18:10.991 --> 00:18:12.832
No, no, no, no.
00:18:12.832 --> 00:18:12.842
Yeah.
00:18:12.842 --> 00:18:13.547
No, no, no.
00:18:13.576 --> 00:18:13.866
This.
00:18:14.666 --> 00:18:17.606
I mean, the rescue service, again, it's all about self preservation.
00:18:17.606 --> 00:18:26.366
So we're never gonna put ourselves at risk because someone else has taken a a risk, um, which could put us in danger, so, right, right.
00:18:26.422 --> 00:18:26.711
Yeah.
00:18:26.717 --> 00:18:27.987
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:29.217 --> 00:18:37.047
So what role do team dynamics then play in strengthening outcomes versus creating destruction?
00:18:37.727 --> 00:18:48.251
Like how can leaders actively shape that difference going into strengthening outcomes versus creating destructions, because milliseconds can make, mm-hmm.
00:18:48.942 --> 00:18:51.521
That goal this way or that way, can it?
00:18:51.852 --> 00:18:52.301
Right?
00:18:52.307 --> 00:18:52.696
Mm-hmm.
00:18:52.701 --> 00:18:53.261
Mm-hmm.
00:18:53.741 --> 00:19:04.842
Again, I'd say a lot of the time it's actually having this, um, um, a, a global view over your team, as in checking in on everyone, right?
00:19:04.842 --> 00:19:09.642
And realizing that every person is a, I call it unity, a uh, call it a micro.
00:19:10.156 --> 00:19:11.747
Um, unit within a team.
00:19:11.747 --> 00:19:12.076
Yes.
00:19:12.376 --> 00:19:19.787
And if you're not checking in on everyone, um, leadership is very subtle, a leadership as we, um, it's teamship now.
00:19:19.967 --> 00:19:26.836
It's not about barking orders, whereas I come from a very old school team where all it was was about barking orders.
00:19:27.346 --> 00:19:36.767
Um, bullying, actually harassment, um, to try and get a result, which actually it backfired on them because the results didn't occur.
00:19:36.856 --> 00:19:38.267
Um, and.
00:19:38.977 --> 00:19:55.356
Whether that's result of their personality, which I think which was the case, but it's if you take care with the team, you take time with the team, and also if you give that team time to breathe and also say, I need some time out, your team will be even more productive because they'll want to actually work harder.
00:19:55.761 --> 00:20:02.842
And they'll work harder when they're actually in a optimal, um, stage or phase in the, in, in, in, in the project.
00:20:03.172 --> 00:20:03.261
Right.
00:20:03.382 --> 00:20:06.442
Um, so I, as I say, it's very, very subtle.
00:20:06.442 --> 00:20:14.241
I think a, a, a good leader is someone who will sit on the, on, on, on the sideline, so to speak, and you probably won't even know they.
00:20:14.326 --> 00:20:14.777
They're there.
00:20:14.866 --> 00:20:15.376
Mm.
00:20:15.406 --> 00:20:19.126
Um, they're kind of like that guardian angel as, or I would say, right.
00:20:19.126 --> 00:20:19.156
Okay.
00:20:19.156 --> 00:20:21.406
The guardian angel, they're looking after their flock.
00:20:21.406 --> 00:20:25.936
They're bringing their flock together to, to be a, an effective, effective team.
00:20:25.936 --> 00:20:26.057
Mm-hmm.
00:20:28.271 --> 00:20:39.731
And also a leader should be able to be someone who you go in and you can ask them, you can sit down, have a chat with them, um, about stuff which you don't understand or you're feeling threatened by.
00:20:40.061 --> 00:20:48.672
They should be very, very open, right in, in, in different cultures it's different because it's all very much the leader is the person you.
00:20:49.241 --> 00:20:53.682
You are polite, Tom, you, you, you re um, right.
00:20:54.221 --> 00:20:59.142
And you've, I think the linguistic side of things can actually make more barriers in the long run.
00:20:59.142 --> 00:20:59.231
Right.
00:20:59.231 --> 00:21:10.602
Whereas an Anglo-Saxon kind of, um, environment, we'll say you, and there's been less kind of stigma attached speaking to the CEO or the, the, the person of the company.
00:21:11.186 --> 00:21:17.576
Um, and I think that's why I got things wrong in the fire brigade because I used to go straight to the, the big boss.
00:21:17.696 --> 00:21:19.946
If I was upset with something'cause I thought I needed to, right.
00:21:20.096 --> 00:21:24.356
And I was, you know, kinda my hands kind of, Caroline, you shouldn't have done that.
00:21:24.356 --> 00:21:29.547
You should have followed the procedure, you know, go to see the sergeant who then goes to see the Colin and who goes to see the ma.
00:21:29.876 --> 00:21:31.497
And it's just like, right.
00:21:31.497 --> 00:21:36.027
See, leadership for me is, is like a finely tuned instrument.
00:21:36.957 --> 00:21:42.477
It takes time to finally tune, um, the leader and then the team right on top.
00:21:42.477 --> 00:21:42.926
Right?
00:21:43.076 --> 00:21:43.376
Right.
00:21:43.376 --> 00:21:49.076
Um, but if that time is taken and that emotional intelligence is there mm-hmm.
00:21:49.317 --> 00:21:51.176
That's the other thing, right?
00:21:51.207 --> 00:21:51.567
Yeah.
00:21:51.596 --> 00:21:56.787
Like thing, uh, you know, uh, we can have a very effective, very well healthy functioning team.
00:21:56.787 --> 00:21:57.626
Mm-hmm.
00:21:57.686 --> 00:21:59.186
Yeah, totally.
00:22:00.237 --> 00:22:05.277
You mentioned communication earlier on in terms of being vital.
00:22:06.461 --> 00:22:10.451
Is that a big proponent of what you're speaking of?
00:22:10.451 --> 00:22:13.362
I mean, what you just shared in terms of the Nope.
00:22:13.392 --> 00:22:14.801
You go, you did the wrong thing.
00:22:14.801 --> 00:22:17.412
You didn't go direct and had, you don't do that here.
00:22:17.412 --> 00:22:18.582
You do A, B, C.
00:22:18.582 --> 00:22:18.672
Mm-hmm.
00:22:18.672 --> 00:22:20.172
And then it goes up the ladder.
00:22:20.682 --> 00:22:20.801
Mm-hmm.
00:22:20.807 --> 00:22:21.076
Mm-hmm.
00:22:21.102 --> 00:22:25.932
That to me indicates that that's something, um, that is.
00:22:26.336 --> 00:22:34.737
In need of, I'm gonna say repair because people aren't feeling safe to be able to say things that that need to be said.
00:22:34.737 --> 00:22:42.656
And communication is about listening and receiving, and not just barking orders, but listening to understand.
00:22:42.656 --> 00:22:43.076
Right?
00:22:43.166 --> 00:22:43.257
Mm-hmm.
00:22:43.317 --> 00:22:47.366
Is that a piece that you feel is important in teams and in leaders?
00:22:48.896 --> 00:22:49.856
Yeah, definitely.
00:22:49.886 --> 00:22:58.136
And I say I think a lot of it could, can be cultural, but communication as we know, they, the words, I mean, communication, the spoken word is what, 7%.
00:22:58.797 --> 00:22:59.007
Right.
00:22:59.007 --> 00:23:02.126
Um, and it's about how, um, yeah, I mean, yeah.
00:23:02.126 --> 00:23:04.886
You know, the communication is, is is also what you're doing.
00:23:04.946 --> 00:23:10.406
Um, and again, I'll bring it even down to the, the, the, the communication I have with my dog or my dog.
00:23:10.406 --> 00:23:11.307
Still have a dog to this day.
00:23:11.547 --> 00:23:11.906
Sure.
00:23:12.027 --> 00:23:12.537
Um.
00:23:12.876 --> 00:23:24.247
It has to be so finite and, and, and tuned in a way that you are both interacting in a way which is gonna bring a good result.
00:23:24.547 --> 00:23:28.626
And I think we could learn a lot from human versus canine communication.
00:23:29.166 --> 00:23:36.037
Um, and the RN of of it all is the, in this team I was in the person who liked to bark.
00:23:36.696 --> 00:23:40.836
Yeah, he had a series of dogs, which didn't really work very well.
00:23:40.896 --> 00:23:40.957
Mm.
00:23:41.527 --> 00:23:44.047
Because he tried to dominate his dogs constantly.
00:23:44.047 --> 00:23:53.886
And when you try and dominate a dog, uh, especially a certain breed of dog, um, a mair, a Belgium Shepherd, you can end up with very, very, um, oh yeah.
00:23:54.307 --> 00:23:57.967
Opposite, opposite, um, temperament and opposite behavioral traits.
00:23:58.507 --> 00:23:58.626
Yeah.
00:23:58.656 --> 00:24:01.747
So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's good to follow procedures.
00:24:01.747 --> 00:24:04.656
Procedures are there to keep us safe, of course, in the mountain.
00:24:05.307 --> 00:24:12.596
Um, and they're there to, um, make sure that the, the, uh, project or the, or the mission goes through.
00:24:13.047 --> 00:24:19.886
Um, but then you need to be able to adapt and you need to be able to adapt to, um, you know, how you're communicating with people.
00:24:20.277 --> 00:24:20.547
Right.
00:24:20.606 --> 00:24:30.057
Um, so yeah, it's, um, it's a, a great learning experience for me, um, being in that team for 10 years, but I'm very grateful that I'm no longer there.
00:24:30.656 --> 00:24:31.017
Right.
00:24:31.047 --> 00:24:31.467
Yeah.
00:24:31.737 --> 00:24:33.172
And it was time, right?
00:24:34.076 --> 00:24:34.576
It was time.
00:24:34.576 --> 00:24:35.176
There were other things.
00:24:35.176 --> 00:24:42.192
It was things, it was destiny kind of pulled me another way and, um, I'm out of it now and, um, yeah.
00:24:42.852 --> 00:24:55.781
Yeah, it's, um, it's, it's good to be able to take everything which I've learned because despite, as we say, when you go through negative, um, not particularly nice experiences, they are also a, a moment of growth.
00:24:56.321 --> 00:24:56.412
Yeah.
00:24:56.442 --> 00:25:02.231
Um, which does make you, you know, obviously stronger, but it also helps you move forward and actually help others.
00:25:02.531 --> 00:25:03.192
Um, exactly.
00:25:03.477 --> 00:25:06.297
So, yeah, exactly.
00:25:06.656 --> 00:25:23.906
And, and I, I know for me, a lot of the things that I share and talk about with clients and when I do, you know, different events and whatnot, is about the idea around leadership of self and how important it is.
00:25:24.116 --> 00:25:29.787
As you spoke about that, that gut brain that tells you, wait a minute, wait a minute.
00:25:30.237 --> 00:25:35.936
We get to listen to those pieces and nobody gets to tell us otherwise.
00:25:35.936 --> 00:25:39.896
It's up to us to be able to know who we are as individuals.
00:25:39.896 --> 00:25:50.426
And I, I have, my experience has always been those leaders that I've had throughout my career prior to doing what I do now in education.
00:25:51.027 --> 00:25:57.477
Um, the leaders that I absolutely adored were very.
00:25:57.836 --> 00:26:09.537
Knowledgeable about who they were, and they were also very, um, I'm gonna say communicative in their presence.
00:26:10.436 --> 00:26:14.757
Not just in their words, they didn't just stand, they weren't the sage on the stage.
00:26:15.057 --> 00:26:16.166
They were genuine.
00:26:16.166 --> 00:26:16.497
Right.
00:26:16.527 --> 00:26:25.017
They were who they were, whether they were at the front of the stage for the opening address or whether they were coming into your school or whatever.
00:26:25.467 --> 00:26:28.467
They just were solid human beings, good people.
00:26:28.467 --> 00:26:28.557
Mm-hmm.
00:26:29.967 --> 00:26:32.576
Who took time, right?
00:26:33.267 --> 00:26:33.446
Mm-hmm.
00:26:33.448 --> 00:26:33.458
Mm-hmm.
00:26:33.491 --> 00:26:33.771
Yeah.
00:26:34.991 --> 00:26:35.172
Yeah.
00:26:35.172 --> 00:26:41.231
Time is precious and it's, it's taking that time to give that time to people Yeah.
00:26:41.261 --> 00:26:43.182
And to actually be approachable.
00:26:43.662 --> 00:26:44.051
Right.
00:26:44.142 --> 00:26:47.082
Um, so I think that's another aspect.
00:26:47.082 --> 00:26:49.692
You don't feel that you can approach someone.
00:26:49.811 --> 00:26:54.237
Um, that's when things start, the, the, the barriers start coming up.
00:26:54.642 --> 00:26:54.731
Right.
00:26:55.001 --> 00:26:56.352
Um, so yeah.
00:26:56.892 --> 00:26:57.582
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:57.582 --> 00:26:58.541
There's some good leaders.
00:26:58.541 --> 00:27:07.122
Funny how, we imagine leaders always to be these kind of, the, the posture of someone standing there and kind of shouting on, I'm not gonna name one, one in particular person.
00:27:07.571 --> 00:27:09.027
Um, yep, yep, yep.
00:27:09.791 --> 00:27:10.211
Um, yeah.
00:27:11.112 --> 00:27:12.942
Around the world, um mm-hmm.
00:27:12.942 --> 00:27:18.041
And it's the ones in behind the scenes which make things or help things flow, um, right.
00:27:18.311 --> 00:27:23.922
Very subtly, but, uh, in a very, I'd say, as said before, emotionally intelligent way, so, yeah.
00:27:23.922 --> 00:27:23.932
Mm-hmm.
00:27:24.071 --> 00:27:24.372
Yeah.
00:27:24.491 --> 00:27:25.422
Yeah, for sure.
00:27:27.551 --> 00:27:29.021
And, I mean, I'll give you an example of my dog.
00:27:29.142 --> 00:27:30.882
I, yeah, just sorry to cut you.
00:27:30.882 --> 00:27:39.221
Give an example of my dog, you know, I used to be accused of being too soft with him and, um, I had to put a bed in the cage and they were like, oh, no, no, it's a working dog.
00:27:39.221 --> 00:27:44.711
He, he needs to be in a hard, and I was just like thinking, well, how about you sleep on the floor tonight?
00:27:45.461 --> 00:27:47.082
Are you gonna work well in the morning?
00:27:47.442 --> 00:27:47.592
Right?
00:27:47.592 --> 00:27:50.112
And he's like, yes, he's a working dog and you're too soft.
00:27:50.112 --> 00:27:52.902
And I said, well, why does my dog work?
00:27:53.136 --> 00:27:57.126
Um, oh, he works, he works well because he's, he's, he, he just has it in him.
00:27:57.517 --> 00:27:59.676
I was like, well, no, that doesn't, that's not the case.
00:27:59.676 --> 00:28:04.176
You know, a dog handler, you know, brings out the best or the worst in their dog.
00:28:05.136 --> 00:28:05.467
Totally.
00:28:05.467 --> 00:28:16.057
So, yeah, I, it's again about, I, I know we call them French, which is dog, you know, master as the translator as okay.
00:28:16.057 --> 00:28:19.267
And, you know, we are not mastering a dog at all.
00:28:19.356 --> 00:28:20.646
We shouldn't be mastering a dog.
00:28:21.251 --> 00:28:22.122
As I say, it's a team.
00:28:22.122 --> 00:28:27.731
We should be working together in fusional effective, gentle, loving way.
00:28:28.061 --> 00:28:28.392
Right.
00:28:28.481 --> 00:28:29.201
Um, so yeah.
00:28:29.561 --> 00:28:30.071
Right.
00:28:30.491 --> 00:28:30.642
Yeah.
00:28:30.642 --> 00:28:35.951
And the softy Caroline here really like, really, Caroline.
00:28:36.011 --> 00:28:36.432
Really?
00:28:37.751 --> 00:28:38.112
Gee.
00:28:38.352 --> 00:28:43.902
It's like, I know it's, but it, but you're to your point, well.
00:28:44.696 --> 00:28:46.166
How does my dog perform?
00:28:46.166 --> 00:28:47.576
Oh, it's a great dog.
00:28:47.757 --> 00:28:48.747
Mm-hmm.
00:28:49.376 --> 00:28:59.186
It is a great dog, and I see that and I know that, and I love him for that because he's giving me as much as I'm able to give back to him.
00:28:59.217 --> 00:28:59.396
Mm.
00:28:59.426 --> 00:28:59.757
Right.
00:28:59.757 --> 00:29:03.717
It's that dual relationship, so, yeah.
00:29:04.017 --> 00:29:05.037
Isn't that interesting?
00:29:05.037 --> 00:29:12.507
I, I love how you talk too about dogs know animals know people they know the energy Horses know.
00:29:13.182 --> 00:29:13.811
The energy.
00:29:13.842 --> 00:29:13.932
Mm-hmm.
00:29:13.932 --> 00:29:17.981
They just have that seventh, eighth sense, whatever it might be.
00:29:18.372 --> 00:29:19.362
Um mm-hmm.
00:29:19.481 --> 00:29:21.856
And so how long have you had Fjord?
00:29:23.832 --> 00:29:26.501
Uh, Fjord I had for 10 years.
00:29:26.561 --> 00:29:27.731
He's no longer with me now.
00:29:27.936 --> 00:29:28.227
Okay.
00:29:28.231 --> 00:29:28.392
Okay.
00:29:28.392 --> 00:29:30.071
He died just before lockdown.
00:29:30.162 --> 00:29:31.271
Um, oh.
00:29:31.481 --> 00:29:33.521
So, yeah, quite sad.
00:29:33.521 --> 00:29:37.241
He collapsed prior to just after an avalanche training.
00:29:37.332 --> 00:29:39.372
Um, he got bored in the uk.
00:29:39.372 --> 00:29:41.892
I couldn't train him in the UK because the English team are like, no, no, no.
00:29:41.892 --> 00:29:43.692
Your qualification's not valid here in England.
00:29:43.751 --> 00:29:45.041
So, oh.
00:29:45.106 --> 00:29:49.426
Yeah, he got bored eight socks and ended up hurting himself inside.
00:29:49.426 --> 00:29:52.126
So he was with me for, he died when he was nine.
00:29:52.666 --> 00:29:52.787
Okay.
00:29:52.817 --> 00:29:54.886
Um, but I now, I now have another dog.
00:29:55.126 --> 00:29:55.727
Um Okay.
00:29:56.686 --> 00:29:58.277
And she's a female.
00:29:58.277 --> 00:30:06.227
And up until last year, um, I think it was last year, the year before, no female avalanche dogs were allowed in France, it was only males.
00:30:08.267 --> 00:30:09.076
Okay.
00:30:09.467 --> 00:30:10.217
So anyway.
00:30:10.307 --> 00:30:10.517
Yeah.
00:30:10.517 --> 00:30:11.176
We're gonna let that sit.
00:30:11.182 --> 00:30:13.352
It was never Yeah.
00:30:13.352 --> 00:30:13.511
Yeah.
00:30:14.741 --> 00:30:16.422
Historically, I think there was an avalanche.
00:30:16.422 --> 00:30:24.642
She went wrong, and as a result, they decided to ban the weaker or whatever the per the element, which would've put the males off their work.
00:30:25.211 --> 00:30:28.031
So when I took my female, I knew she couldn't be an avalanche dog.
00:30:28.092 --> 00:30:31.902
Now they've allowed to have females, but it's too late.
00:30:31.902 --> 00:30:33.071
She's too old now to do it.
00:30:33.071 --> 00:30:33.102
Okay.
00:30:33.102 --> 00:30:33.162
Yeah.
00:30:33.192 --> 00:30:35.051
So I've trained her in something else.
00:30:35.051 --> 00:30:37.182
I've trained her in bed bedbug detection.
00:30:37.287 --> 00:30:37.406
Oh wow.
00:30:37.646 --> 00:30:41.727
So she, she could detect bedbugs, just wanted to give it something to do.
00:30:41.787 --> 00:30:42.596
Um, you know.
00:30:42.596 --> 00:30:42.836
Yeah.
00:30:42.836 --> 00:30:52.076
And it is either, um, yeah, trailing or right drugs or explosives, and those are the kind of things I can't just get a hold of down the road.
00:30:52.076 --> 00:30:53.067
So I thought, right.
00:30:53.126 --> 00:30:53.396
Yeah.
00:30:53.396 --> 00:30:54.326
Get a hold of bedbugs.
00:30:54.656 --> 00:30:55.017
Yeah.
00:30:55.376 --> 00:30:55.761
There you go.
00:30:57.162 --> 00:31:02.622
Pretty consistent opportunities Oh dear.
00:31:02.622 --> 00:31:05.592
Decide to keep her her healthy mentally and, and yeah.
00:31:05.592 --> 00:31:11.382
Keep me knowing that she's doing something, she's gonna got a, got a, a bit of a purpose, you know, in her life.
00:31:11.412 --> 00:31:11.652
Yeah.
00:31:11.652 --> 00:31:11.922
For sure.
00:31:11.922 --> 00:31:14.531
Not a dog needs a purpose, but they, you know, they are Yeah.
00:31:14.531 --> 00:31:17.862
Animals in the day who like to go out and hunt and be in a pack, so, of course.
00:31:17.866 --> 00:31:18.086
Yeah.
00:31:18.517 --> 00:31:18.912
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:19.001 --> 00:31:19.092
Mm-hmm.
00:31:19.332 --> 00:31:22.086
You're, you're being true to their nature, which is key.
00:31:22.531 --> 00:31:24.241
I mean, yeah, totally.
00:31:24.301 --> 00:31:24.662
Totally.
00:31:24.662 --> 00:31:28.051
What you're about in terms of giving support to the animals that you love.
00:31:28.981 --> 00:31:29.761
Amazing.
00:31:29.791 --> 00:31:29.882
Mm-hmm.
00:31:30.872 --> 00:31:35.251
Is there anything that you would love to leave our audience with?
00:31:35.251 --> 00:31:41.071
It's been such an incredible opportunity to share this space and time and conversation with you.
00:31:41.071 --> 00:31:41.761
Caroline.
00:31:41.761 --> 00:31:43.592
Such a gift to have met you.
00:31:43.682 --> 00:31:45.511
I'm so honored for this time.
00:31:46.051 --> 00:31:46.832
Is there anything?
00:31:46.832 --> 00:31:46.981
Thank you.
00:31:46.981 --> 00:31:47.336
I'm very honored.
00:31:47.936 --> 00:31:47.997
Yeah.
00:31:49.977 --> 00:31:55.227
Anything you'd love to share with the audience as, as we wrap up our conversation today?
00:31:57.446 --> 00:32:10.166
I would, um, and this may sound a bit strange, but I would say that, you know, my communication with my dogs is probably the most finite and beautiful kind of relationship I have.
00:32:11.787 --> 00:32:17.217
I would, again, with all the work I do, just in predominantly in teams, is kindness.
00:32:17.366 --> 00:32:17.997
Um, yeah.
00:32:17.997 --> 00:32:23.067
And respect, um, towards your fellow members, you might not like them.
00:32:23.711 --> 00:32:28.332
As a person, we are not, you know, we, we come into the world where the people we don't like.
00:32:28.872 --> 00:32:29.051
Right.
00:32:29.051 --> 00:32:38.352
But, um, you've got to be gentle with people because, you know, we all have to live on the plant together, you know, all work in the, in teams together.
00:32:38.352 --> 00:32:42.207
And, um, there's so much stuff going on in the world now mm-hmm.
00:32:42.672 --> 00:32:48.162
That I think a little bit of kindness and, and love and, and care towards every person.
00:32:48.582 --> 00:32:52.632
Um, not that it's always easy in stressful situations.
00:32:52.846 --> 00:32:55.787
Um, it said, just try, try your best.
00:32:55.787 --> 00:33:02.207
And again, if you're on ski slopes, you're out there skiing, guys, skiing, it is just turn around and, and be respectful for others.
00:33:02.207 --> 00:33:07.846
I mean, the other day I got shouted at, um, quite badly by some clients and I was just like, I ended up crying.
00:33:07.906 --> 00:33:10.096
You know, I went back up to my ski patrol hunt and crying.
00:33:10.126 --> 00:33:11.507
So, yeah.
00:33:11.567 --> 00:33:15.616
Um, were all there trying to, yeah, do what we're doing in, in life.
00:33:15.616 --> 00:33:20.987
So kindness and and respect are my two go-tos.
00:33:21.461 --> 00:33:23.592
For sure and thank you for that.
00:33:23.592 --> 00:33:41.261
And, and I think when my experience has been, when that doesn't come naturally for individuals, the way that my former behavior resource teacher brain works is that there's something within them.
00:33:41.967 --> 00:33:47.396
That is hurting, that they can't see the value of being kind.
00:33:47.396 --> 00:33:51.777
They can't even be kind to themselves, so they push it out and give it to everybody else.
00:33:51.777 --> 00:34:01.797
The disrespect, that's the only way that I can reframe it in order to be able to hold it in a way that doesn't affect me deeply.
00:34:01.977 --> 00:34:02.186
Right.
00:34:02.186 --> 00:34:02.307
Yeah.
00:34:02.307 --> 00:34:03.477
Because people, mm-hmm.
00:34:04.317 --> 00:34:04.946
Wow.
00:34:04.946 --> 00:34:07.166
We've got such an incredible.
00:34:08.097 --> 00:34:10.197
Breadth and depth of individuality.
00:34:10.197 --> 00:34:10.286
Mm-hmm.
00:34:10.706 --> 00:34:17.217
And what you just shared I think is missing and it's almost like we have to reteach it.
00:34:17.952 --> 00:34:18.371
Mm-hmm.
00:34:18.751 --> 00:34:19.532
Oh, definitely.
00:34:19.532 --> 00:34:20.052
Definitely.
00:34:20.231 --> 00:34:20.612
For sure.
00:34:20.612 --> 00:34:20.851
Right?
00:34:21.112 --> 00:34:21.331
Yep.
00:34:21.431 --> 00:34:21.851
Mm-hmm.
00:34:22.797 --> 00:34:24.117
And how unfortunate.
00:34:24.117 --> 00:34:37.556
So I'm so glad that you have the relationship that you have with your animals to be able to hold that anchor in a way that is non-negotiable and it's unconditional.
00:34:38.217 --> 00:34:53.847
So thank you for being that light to help guide teams in ways that they need to experience so that they can really put the rubber to the road and understand who they are as individuals to bring a team aspect together that is successful.
00:34:54.447 --> 00:34:56.726
And I love the idea of your simulation.
00:34:56.876 --> 00:34:58.436
That sounds amazing.
00:34:59.666 --> 00:34:59.996
Look at you.
00:35:00.476 --> 00:35:02.637
Come, come, come and bury you in a hole.
00:35:02.637 --> 00:35:05.067
Come, come, come over to the to the else.
00:35:05.396 --> 00:35:11.097
Mean I can, there's, there's any resort in, in, in the, in the North America Who would like me to, to come bring you on board.
00:35:11.097 --> 00:35:12.476
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm open for it.
00:35:12.536 --> 00:35:13.527
Um, yeah.
00:35:13.556 --> 00:35:15.416
So yeah, for sure be a mix of that.
00:35:15.447 --> 00:35:18.927
Pushing people in holes, um, but also bit of cold water.
00:35:19.391 --> 00:35:20.922
Pushing you outta your depths, basically.
00:35:20.952 --> 00:35:22.452
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:22.992 --> 00:35:37.211
Such an interesting way to go about it, and thank you for bringing it forward today In our conversation, we will have thank you ways to connect with Caroline in the show notes, so make sure you go and check the show notes.
00:35:37.782 --> 00:35:43.331
Caroline, thank you again for your no thank you time and your expertise.
00:35:43.362 --> 00:35:44.112
I love it.
00:35:44.112 --> 00:35:47.621
It's been such a pleasure to get to know you a little bit further.
00:35:47.621 --> 00:35:47.652
I.
00:35:49.197 --> 00:35:53.067
Thank you so much for your time and yeah, just, just wonderful.
00:35:53.067 --> 00:35:57.597
It's very, very energizing for me to speak to someone like yourself, so thank you.
00:35:57.867 --> 00:35:58.797
Thank you.
00:35:59.336 --> 00:36:01.737
If you have had something, uh.
00:36:02.742 --> 00:36:07.601
I'm gonna say trigger not the best word to use, but that's what's coming forward.
00:36:07.601 --> 00:36:08.501
So I'm using it.
00:36:08.501 --> 00:36:18.192
If you've had something trigger or set inside of you from our conversation today, make sure that you tap back in.
00:36:18.192 --> 00:36:21.012
That red flag came up, step back.
00:36:21.012 --> 00:36:22.302
Don't jump forward.
00:36:22.302 --> 00:36:25.032
Step back, take that space and pause.
00:36:25.632 --> 00:36:27.012
Check out the show notes.
00:36:27.012 --> 00:36:27.762
Find Caroline.
00:36:28.911 --> 00:36:37.311
And make sure that you share, follow like our show so that other people can find us.
00:36:37.371 --> 00:36:42.112
Have a great day, everyone, and we are going to continue to thrive after 45.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.070
Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Thrive After 45.
00:00:05.070 --> 00:00:10.080
I'm Denise Drinkwater, heart whisperer, midlife mirror and mentor.
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:16.530
And every week I am absolutely honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests.
00:00:17.445 --> 00:00:23.835
Whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45?
00:00:23.835 --> 00:00:32.835
Together we'll uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion.
00:00:32.835 --> 00:00:42.645
What do you discover about yourself when there is no room for panic performance or pretending only presence?
00:00:42.645 --> 00:00:44.115
Truth and decisive action.
00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:50.970
It is such an honor and a privilege to welcome Carolyn Elliott to our show today.
00:00:50.970 --> 00:01:04.126
Caroline has spent over 20 years in ski rescue with more than a decade inside specialist mountain rescue units working directly in avalanche response as a search.
00:01:04.766 --> 00:01:08.756
Rescue dog handler where pressure is real.
00:01:08.756 --> 00:01:16.346
Communication must be very clean, and leadership is revealed in seconds.
00:01:16.346 --> 00:01:18.021
This is lived experience.
00:01:18.691 --> 00:01:19.680
Not theory.
00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:32.971
And today she is an international keynote speaker and author carrying those same principles from the mountains into the worlds of snow, safety, leadership, and high pressure performance.
00:01:32.971 --> 00:01:36.960
She has impacted thousands of lives from children.
00:01:36.960 --> 00:01:57.361
Discovering mountain Safety through her book, fjords Mountain Mission, inspired by her avalanche dog Fjord and now translated into four languages to adults and leadership teams learning how to function clearly when conditions are unstable and the stakes are really high.
00:01:57.361 --> 00:02:03.400
Most recently, her work has expanded into guiding business teams, translating the realities of.
00:02:03.786 --> 00:02:11.975
Avalanche rescue into practical frameworks for decision making, communication, and trust under pressure.
00:02:11.975 --> 00:02:24.366
She is also in the developmental phase of something very rare, avalanche simulation camps where teams are deliberately placed under pressure not to be tested.
00:02:24.366 --> 00:02:29.855
But to be revealed, because pressure really doesn't create who we are.
00:02:29.855 --> 00:02:35.825
It actually ends up showing us exactly who we've been all along.
00:02:35.825 --> 00:02:38.286
Welcome to our show today, Caroline.
00:02:38.286 --> 00:02:40.746
I can't wait to have this conversation with you.
00:02:40.746 --> 00:02:42.126
Thank you so much, Denise.
00:02:42.126 --> 00:02:44.526
It's, it's, I've been really looking forward to this.
00:02:44.526 --> 00:02:45.216
It's been great.
00:02:45.276 --> 00:02:45.846
Thank you.
00:02:46.776 --> 00:02:48.700
We have to start with your picture.
00:02:49.122 --> 00:02:52.937
We have to start with your picture in the background is that Fjord?
00:02:53.981 --> 00:02:59.741
Yeah, that's, um, Fjord, bless him when he was, um, on the way to an avalanche training.
00:02:59.741 --> 00:03:03.102
So that's him going full on, uh, to the, is it left of me?
00:03:03.641 --> 00:03:03.972
Yeah.
00:03:03.977 --> 00:03:04.937
Depends what you looking at the screen.
00:03:05.257 --> 00:03:05.456
Yeah.
00:03:06.222 --> 00:03:09.342
So that's, that's fjord in full flight mode, so to speed.
00:03:09.701 --> 00:03:11.292
Um, so yeah, no, no.
00:03:11.352 --> 00:03:12.162
Uh, great dog.
00:03:12.222 --> 00:03:12.762
Great dog.
00:03:12.852 --> 00:03:19.421
Um, and yeah, the big snow mountain behind me is a, a peak in the Pyrenees, actually a volcanic peak.
00:03:19.421 --> 00:03:22.361
So yeah, no very snow mountains.
00:03:22.361 --> 00:03:22.782
Um.
00:03:23.562 --> 00:03:25.002
Yeah, beautiful place.
00:03:25.632 --> 00:03:25.901
Love it.
00:03:25.901 --> 00:03:28.991
But, um, potentially very dangerous, but yeah.
00:03:29.051 --> 00:03:32.412
I totally, mm-hmm.
00:03:33.132 --> 00:03:37.241
Tell us, how did you get to where you are today?
00:03:37.241 --> 00:03:39.072
Were you always a skier as a kid?
00:03:39.102 --> 00:03:44.562
Like, tell us a little bit of your story so we can really understand Caroline.
00:03:44.622 --> 00:03:44.801
Mm-hmm.
00:03:45.132 --> 00:03:46.301
Where she is today.
00:03:46.421 --> 00:03:46.481
Yeah.
00:03:46.481 --> 00:03:50.412
And the incredible capacity you bring to teams.
00:03:51.762 --> 00:03:52.092
Yeah.
00:03:52.092 --> 00:03:54.671
So I, um, I started skiing at the age of 10.
00:03:54.972 --> 00:03:58.271
Um, I was a gymnast before, so I started gymnastics very, very young.
00:03:58.782 --> 00:04:02.592
And, um, it was just a natural, um, transition from gymnastics onto skis.
00:04:02.651 --> 00:04:10.451
Um, balance was there and I was lucky to have a, a, um, a very kind of genuine, um, family.
00:04:10.451 --> 00:04:11.412
And dad was like.
00:04:11.822 --> 00:04:16.141
Take Karen off skiing to my mom and my dad did not like snow at all.
00:04:16.771 --> 00:04:18.572
Um, so she took me off to Marybel.
00:04:19.012 --> 00:04:19.302
Okay.
00:04:19.302 --> 00:04:23.216
We were quite well known resorts in the Alps and um, I learned to ski and didn't look back.
00:04:23.966 --> 00:04:25.526
Um, I absolutely adored it.
00:04:25.617 --> 00:04:32.726
Um, yeah, the snow, the cold, um, and I think also my capacity, uh, physically to actually take to it like a abductor water.
00:04:32.786 --> 00:04:33.057
Yeah.
00:04:34.197 --> 00:04:36.596
Um, and yeah, mountains on my happy place, so.
00:04:36.627 --> 00:04:36.716
Mm-hmm.
00:04:37.257 --> 00:04:40.826
And then that progressed onto, um, do not laugh, ski ballet.
00:04:41.276 --> 00:04:42.266
So I did ski ballet.
00:04:42.266 --> 00:04:43.406
Oh wow.
00:04:43.791 --> 00:04:47.721
My Walkman and my, my hair at the end.
00:04:47.976 --> 00:04:48.637
Oh yeah.
00:04:48.677 --> 00:04:49.317
I love it.
00:04:49.516 --> 00:04:50.076
I can see it.
00:04:50.182 --> 00:04:50.781
I know.
00:04:51.141 --> 00:04:54.411
And there was a very, very, very, I was not at a very high level.
00:04:54.411 --> 00:04:55.672
There was something called Julia Snell.
00:04:55.701 --> 00:05:00.442
Um, she actually came to living in Canada, um, and I believe she married a Canadian.
00:05:00.891 --> 00:05:02.661
And, uh, she was like up there.
00:05:02.752 --> 00:05:06.232
Um, I was kind of doing it nationally, but um, I loved it.
00:05:06.232 --> 00:05:09.922
I either kind of, um, took a kind of like, um, what do you call it?
00:05:11.367 --> 00:05:18.476
Um, the wells into a, splits into a kind of like arms in the air, and it was just so eighties.
00:05:18.567 --> 00:05:19.016
I loved it.
00:05:19.016 --> 00:05:19.826
So yeah, it was good.
00:05:20.276 --> 00:05:20.576
Yeah.
00:05:20.817 --> 00:05:28.286
And then after that, ski instructing and then from ski instructor decided that I love children and I love instructing children, but I wanted to, I've always wanted to help people.
00:05:28.586 --> 00:05:30.266
So that's kind of the ongoing thing for me.
00:05:30.266 --> 00:05:31.047
It's helping people.
00:05:31.466 --> 00:05:32.127
Sure.
00:05:32.216 --> 00:05:32.726
Sure.
00:05:33.762 --> 00:05:36.732
Is so my weird thing dropping out on me.
00:05:36.762 --> 00:05:38.021
Oh, that's okay.
00:05:38.232 --> 00:05:39.072
You know what?
00:05:39.072 --> 00:05:42.072
Things happen and we just carry on.
00:05:42.072 --> 00:05:45.252
We, I'm just used to kind of just dealing with the situation.
00:05:45.252 --> 00:05:50.081
It occur, it's always, Caroline is plan B as in like is not good to plan as we trained it.
00:05:50.442 --> 00:05:53.081
Let's go with plan B oh, plan C, plan D, or whatever, so, right?
00:05:53.927 --> 00:05:54.346
Mm-hmm.
00:05:54.536 --> 00:05:55.586
Flex flexibility.
00:05:56.771 --> 00:06:04.661
With probably with what you do, you're, you're talking life-threatening situations.
00:06:05.651 --> 00:06:05.711
Yeah.
00:06:05.862 --> 00:06:20.531
So when we introed and talked about seconds count, um, I can only imagine that added stress that that puts on the team as a whole.
00:06:20.831 --> 00:06:23.682
How does that, how does that play out?
00:06:25.166 --> 00:06:32.966
Um, because, um, we do know, I mean, statistically there is, is studies done where we say 15 minutes, you've got a very good chance of survival in an avalanche.
00:06:33.357 --> 00:06:46.766
So if you're not actually where that place is, um, where the avalanche has occurred, you know, the time to get in, there's gonna start ticking from whether it's a, um, a transporting with a, a chairlift or with.
00:06:46.932 --> 00:06:49.062
The road transport or a helicopter.
00:06:49.062 --> 00:06:51.791
So you are under incredible amount of pressure.
00:06:52.002 --> 00:07:02.112
Um, and from a dog handling point of view, you've got to be really careful with that pressure because if you are bringing your stress levels up, your dog is gonna know immediately.
00:07:02.442 --> 00:07:03.521
And Fjord knew.
00:07:03.521 --> 00:07:07.781
I mean, Fjord knew immediately and you have to try and remain as calm as possible.
00:07:08.141 --> 00:07:12.641
And once that uniform goes on, that red unit was like a bit like not a Barbie.
00:07:12.641 --> 00:07:18.701
I used to have a uniform for Ski Charlie, uniform for fire brigade, uniform for, yeah, it was kind of changing uniforms.
00:07:18.701 --> 00:07:20.382
But Fjord had the capacity.
00:07:20.411 --> 00:07:27.951
Dogs do have the capacity to know whether it's sounds or visions, or once they know uniforms on, they know exactly what they're going to do.
00:07:28.601 --> 00:07:43.632
Um, and yeah, um, you go into that situation and you to be really very honest and I smile to this day'cause I'm back with another team not doing avalanche rescue, but I'm back with Cleave Rescue and there's always gonna be dynamics which are.
00:07:44.237 --> 00:07:45.362
Yeah, tricky should we say.
00:07:45.512 --> 00:07:45.802
Yeah.
00:07:45.857 --> 00:07:58.396
And when you're going in for the avalanche, you've just gotta put everything to the side and there's no way, I dunno if you don't get on with Jean Paul or whatever his name is, or, or, um, Julie, um, yeah, that you've just gotta do it.
00:07:58.396 --> 00:08:01.007
You've just gotta do it to actually get the result at the end of the day.
00:08:01.516 --> 00:08:01.817
Yeah.
00:08:01.877 --> 00:08:05.956
Um, that's what is very, very, um, complex.
00:08:06.286 --> 00:08:08.206
Um, oh, I bet not just.
00:08:08.291 --> 00:08:12.192
It's not just the mission, it's actually Yeah.
00:08:12.192 --> 00:08:19.151
Communication with people who potentially you, you, you, you don't really wanna spend time with, but hey.
00:08:19.242 --> 00:08:19.391
Yeah.
00:08:19.391 --> 00:08:20.411
But, um, yeah.
00:08:20.502 --> 00:08:23.411
And knowing that you've got someone's lives in your hand Yeah.
00:08:23.411 --> 00:08:24.432
And so to speak.
00:08:25.331 --> 00:08:25.601
Yeah.
00:08:25.617 --> 00:08:31.391
And, and so how in the world do you, um.
00:08:32.261 --> 00:08:45.761
Take that situation where, you know, you've got people now, do you as teams, do you know each other really well or do they just come together and you've just gotta kind of get to know each other super fast?
00:08:45.761 --> 00:08:46.662
How does that work?
00:08:47.562 --> 00:08:54.341
I mean, you train throughout the year, I mean the team dog team over about seven, eight dog dog handlers and you're training throughout the year.
00:08:54.787 --> 00:09:00.486
Um, but there are some stuff which I won't go into, which happened in my team, which was pretty toxic.
00:09:00.636 --> 00:09:01.177
Um, okay.
00:09:01.177 --> 00:09:06.576
And this is the iron of it all is you're actually there to help people, but you're actually not helping each other by certain behavioral, right.
00:09:06.756 --> 00:09:07.297
Um, traits.
00:09:07.297 --> 00:09:07.657
Yes.
00:09:08.047 --> 00:09:13.836
Um, so you do train, so you do understand how other people, um, react.
00:09:14.461 --> 00:09:25.442
Um, and I'd say a lot of the time you've got to be, um, very, very open-minded and very kind towards your other teammates because we all react differently under stress and pressure.
00:09:25.442 --> 00:09:25.501
Yeah.
00:09:25.802 --> 00:09:31.052
Um, and coming together as an a fusional team takes so much tweaking.
00:09:31.841 --> 00:09:34.121
Um, it just doesn't happen like that.
00:09:34.451 --> 00:09:34.692
Yeah.
00:09:34.961 --> 00:09:38.351
Um, so yeah, it takes a long time.
00:09:38.802 --> 00:09:53.682
Um, now I'm in a resort whereby I've been pushed together in a team for a certain sector and I'm getting to know everyone how they function and slowly but surely, and then the old politics are coming up all the time and I kind of like.
00:09:54.672 --> 00:09:55.032
Yeah.
00:09:55.032 --> 00:10:01.871
I don't think at the end of the day my work's gonna be any better from being, you know, in this kind of mindset.
00:10:03.371 --> 00:10:08.022
So kind of step to be functioning.
00:10:08.022 --> 00:10:10.631
Sometimes you need to do the noise.
00:10:13.006 --> 00:10:13.297
Yeah.
00:10:14.562 --> 00:10:14.861
Yeah.
00:10:15.777 --> 00:10:15.986
Yeah.
00:10:15.991 --> 00:10:17.336
Very, very, very, very complex.
00:10:17.636 --> 00:10:18.746
Um, fascinating.
00:10:18.807 --> 00:10:19.557
I mean, fascinating.
00:10:19.557 --> 00:10:23.187
That's why I'm, I'm going further into the whole, um, yeah.
00:10:23.726 --> 00:10:24.476
Side of things.
00:10:25.106 --> 00:10:27.476
Exactly, because.
00:10:29.022 --> 00:10:34.211
There are teams that you are now expanding your capacity.
00:10:34.211 --> 00:10:36.072
Thank you for doing this work.
00:10:36.282 --> 00:10:46.777
So moving into other teams, not just around the ski community, let's say, but you are taking your skillset that you've.
00:10:47.057 --> 00:10:58.067
Developed and learned and showing how people can succeed in teams when there is such a disconnect amongst in between.
00:10:58.096 --> 00:10:58.307
Mm-hmm.
00:10:58.486 --> 00:11:00.826
All the players, right?
00:11:00.826 --> 00:11:00.836
Mm-hmm.
00:11:00.836 --> 00:11:01.182
Mm-hmm.
00:11:01.211 --> 00:11:01.501
Yeah.
00:11:02.517 --> 00:11:05.817
And I mean, it's not just in the, in the rescue world, I think it's in any team.
00:11:05.876 --> 00:11:24.356
Hence my, um, really, really kind of, uh, motivated to develop the avalanche simulation clinics because it can actually help teams, um, kind of take off the, you know, the kind of superficial side of potentially what you might get in a, in a closed office environment and bring out right.
00:11:25.241 --> 00:11:27.282
Potentially the worst, but the best at the same time.
00:11:27.282 --> 00:11:32.861
So sometimes it takes a while to, you have to expose areas which are not working and work on them.
00:11:33.042 --> 00:11:34.601
You know, that's what exactly.
00:11:34.662 --> 00:11:37.361
Um, so yeah, it's, yeah.
00:11:37.572 --> 00:11:48.192
It's, uh, with the concept of understanding that what you wanna do is betterment for all and the, and the bottom line at the end of the day.
00:11:48.251 --> 00:11:48.701
Right.
00:11:48.701 --> 00:11:52.361
So in order to do that, you have to create.
00:11:53.231 --> 00:11:58.361
Exposure to things that people wouldn't normally be exposed to.
00:11:58.392 --> 00:12:06.371
But like we talked about in the intro, it brings up the natural tendencies of individuals so that they come to the forefront.
00:12:06.432 --> 00:12:12.851
And then you can, yeah, okay, here's the real behind the pretty, right?
00:12:13.841 --> 00:12:14.201
Yeah.
00:12:14.682 --> 00:12:15.101
Yeah.
00:12:15.192 --> 00:12:16.241
Mm-hmm.
00:12:16.243 --> 00:12:16.253
Mm-hmm.
00:12:16.662 --> 00:12:19.197
And there's another element which I, um, am very, very.
00:12:19.932 --> 00:12:28.451
Um, focused, and I feel that there's an element which we need to, to look, uh, a lot harder at is psychological safety within teams.
00:12:28.812 --> 00:12:37.422
Because there's a lot of elements whereby, um, people won't, whether it's to do with pride or whether ego, they won't say they're not doing well.
00:12:37.422 --> 00:12:41.292
So if there's a team are working on a project Yeah.
00:12:41.292 --> 00:12:46.211
And you might know, I mean, it's about having a buddy, having a, a person who checks in on you.
00:12:46.601 --> 00:12:47.861
So in emergency services.
00:12:47.917 --> 00:12:56.797
You know, uh, we can get, um, fallout, you know, a couple of days, a couple of weeks, even a couple of months later where things will hit us in the Yeah.
00:12:56.797 --> 00:12:58.297
You know, in the face, so to speak.
00:12:58.297 --> 00:13:07.356
And I think the same thing can occur in, in business or any other type of groups whereby someone's not doing too well and sometimes people won't even know.
00:13:07.417 --> 00:13:11.136
Well probably potentially notice small traits of behavior have changed.
00:13:11.407 --> 00:13:11.706
Right.
00:13:11.736 --> 00:13:14.496
Um, so I think, um.
00:13:14.902 --> 00:13:17.091
Going and put yourself in a stressful situation.
00:13:18.052 --> 00:13:18.591
Yeah, maybe.
00:13:18.591 --> 00:13:20.331
'cause I've done it all my life and I do love it.
00:13:20.331 --> 00:13:21.201
I do love it to an extent.
00:13:21.201 --> 00:13:27.201
But, um, I think it brings out that side of people which can then be worked on, whereas you're never gonna get that, you know, right.
00:13:27.231 --> 00:13:33.351
During normal team building kind of activity out in the forest, paint balling or whatever you wanna do.
00:13:33.652 --> 00:13:35.611
Right, right, right, right.
00:13:35.841 --> 00:13:37.912
So this is the next level.
00:13:38.576 --> 00:13:47.966
Of team interaction that really uncovers truths in order to be able to come together in a different way.
00:13:48.147 --> 00:13:48.567
Right?
00:13:48.986 --> 00:13:50.006
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:13:50.517 --> 00:13:50.907
For sure.
00:13:50.907 --> 00:13:50.927
For sure.
00:13:50.937 --> 00:13:51.506
Yeah.
00:13:51.596 --> 00:13:52.027
So, yeah.
00:13:52.027 --> 00:13:53.636
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:53.636 --> 00:13:58.947
So when you look back across your years in avalanche rescue, let's say, mm-hmm.
00:14:00.447 --> 00:14:05.697
What did the mountains teach you about people that no training ever could have?
00:14:05.701 --> 00:14:05.751
Mm-hmm.
00:14:07.677 --> 00:14:13.136
Uh, the mountains have always taught me that it's about having respect for that, that environment.
00:14:14.096 --> 00:14:17.037
Um, I say I call her, she the mountains for me.
00:14:17.067 --> 00:14:17.366
Yeah.
00:14:17.366 --> 00:14:19.106
Um, she's incredibly beautiful.
00:14:19.767 --> 00:14:23.366
Um, but she's got a bit of a mischievous side to her.
00:14:23.456 --> 00:14:34.437
And if you don't respect all the signs, um, which have been provided to you on a daily or hourly basis, she'll trip you up.
00:14:34.511 --> 00:14:35.322
Mm-hmm.
00:14:35.562 --> 00:14:40.751
But then at the end of the day, it's not her fault, it's our fault because we've been given, we've been given everything.
00:14:41.022 --> 00:14:55.542
And I've seen it on a, you know, a, you know, weekly luckily, but a regular basis in, for example, in the Alps, um, people are given all the signs to kind of keep away from certain areas, or they're advised not to go somewhere and they.
00:14:56.307 --> 00:15:00.657
We'll go back and, um, yeah, so for me it's respect.
00:15:00.777 --> 00:15:05.006
Respect and and, and recognizing and, and opening our eyes.
00:15:05.006 --> 00:15:23.187
And also we talk about gut instinct a lot of the time and people say, yes, you don't go gut instinct, but the second brain, and I am a person whereby I realize that when I think start ringing big, big red bells in my head, it's because my knowledge, which I've acquired through the years has actually given me mm-hmm.
00:15:23.427 --> 00:15:25.736
That, um, kind of, um.
00:15:26.241 --> 00:15:29.361
Uh, intelligence to know that something is not quite right.
00:15:29.481 --> 00:15:29.511
Mm.
00:15:30.052 --> 00:15:37.192
And it's then to step back, um,'cause you can end up playing a game of, of, of, you know, um, you know, roulette.
00:15:37.402 --> 00:15:38.001
Um, yeah.
00:15:38.096 --> 00:15:38.386
Yeah.
00:15:38.451 --> 00:15:41.392
It might not go, but it might go in the way we're talking about avalanches.
00:15:41.392 --> 00:15:42.591
But, um, so, yeah.
00:15:42.621 --> 00:15:42.861
Yeah.
00:15:43.611 --> 00:15:46.162
Um, as I saying, respect is a big thing, you know?
00:15:46.282 --> 00:15:46.971
Yeah.
00:15:48.052 --> 00:15:50.721
Thank you for those words, because what.
00:15:51.147 --> 00:16:00.086
What I heard really loud and clear, which really resonated with me, is when those red flags go up, you step back.
00:16:01.001 --> 00:16:08.711
I think our natural propensity is to go in and resolve, whether you're talking about, you know, oh, there's a challenge.
00:16:08.711 --> 00:16:10.542
I need to meet that challenge, right?
00:16:10.572 --> 00:16:10.662
Mm-hmm.
00:16:10.991 --> 00:16:21.611
But to step back and show that respect, so we're talking about mountain, but I can see this clearly aligning with teams and people and self, you know?
00:16:21.611 --> 00:16:21.701
Mm-hmm.
00:16:21.942 --> 00:16:24.432
Our show is about for you, by you because of you.
00:16:24.432 --> 00:16:27.881
When you get that second brain that Caroline just.
00:16:27.956 --> 00:16:30.657
So eloquently spoke about in the gut.
00:16:31.496 --> 00:16:31.706
Mm-hmm.
00:16:31.736 --> 00:16:41.907
We, as women in midlife years are I think taking more time to step back and go, wait a minute, no need to rush to get this done.
00:16:41.907 --> 00:16:43.976
What's being told to me right now?
00:16:44.006 --> 00:16:45.567
What is happening?
00:16:45.567 --> 00:16:46.616
What's going on?
00:16:46.736 --> 00:16:47.246
Yeah.
00:16:47.606 --> 00:16:47.996
Yeah.
00:16:47.996 --> 00:16:48.567
For sure.
00:16:48.572 --> 00:16:52.616
And ironically, the human nature is to go towards.
00:16:53.381 --> 00:16:57.701
Um, I mean, if you have an accent on the road, people will naturally stare to it, right?
00:16:57.701 --> 00:16:57.792
Yes.
00:16:58.182 --> 00:17:06.791
So we are drawn towards this whole, um, sort of disaster, kind of, we're drawn towards things which are red.
00:17:07.392 --> 00:17:07.541
Yeah.
00:17:07.541 --> 00:17:07.602
Um.
00:17:08.711 --> 00:17:22.211
It's kind of also this whole, I say see again in the mountains, uh, a lot of people will say, oh, and we actually had the case of this, it was actually a very sad case of an avalanche where a 14-year-old child remained under, um, he had a GoPro.
00:17:22.211 --> 00:17:24.942
It filmed all his, well, the whole thing.
00:17:25.451 --> 00:17:29.711
Um, and the whole thing was, oh yeah, we go here every year, we go to the same place.
00:17:29.951 --> 00:17:31.451
It's the same slope we go on.
00:17:31.451 --> 00:17:31.541
It's.
00:17:31.912 --> 00:17:35.422
Outside of the resort, but there's always, there's, there's always, um, tracks.
00:17:35.721 --> 00:17:36.531
Tracks are there.
00:17:36.531 --> 00:17:37.102
They're fine.
00:17:37.102 --> 00:17:37.642
They've got through.
00:17:37.642 --> 00:17:43.102
So again, you're paying that, that's, you, you, you're playing with a, a very high risk level.
00:17:43.132 --> 00:17:43.192
Yeah.
00:17:43.192 --> 00:17:47.991
So it is about evaluating what you have in front of you, and there's always another day, isn't there?
00:17:48.201 --> 00:17:49.432
So, mm-hmm.
00:17:49.521 --> 00:17:49.912
Yeah.
00:17:49.942 --> 00:17:53.842
It's, um, yeah, and I, and again, you know, there's loads of stories like that.
00:17:53.842 --> 00:17:54.801
So yeah.
00:17:54.801 --> 00:17:58.132
As we say, the red sit back and enjoy the color.
00:17:58.902 --> 00:17:59.172
Right.
00:17:59.981 --> 00:18:00.791
I love that.
00:18:00.791 --> 00:18:01.451
Yes.
00:18:01.991 --> 00:18:02.771
Yes.
00:18:02.771 --> 00:18:03.281
Red's great.
00:18:03.342 --> 00:18:04.031
I love red.
00:18:04.392 --> 00:18:04.662
Yeah.
00:18:04.902 --> 00:18:06.281
Take, take your time.
00:18:06.311 --> 00:18:07.122
Take your time.
00:18:07.122 --> 00:18:10.271
There is no rush to a finish line, right?
00:18:10.392 --> 00:18:10.872
Yeah.
00:18:10.991 --> 00:18:12.832
No, no, no, no.
00:18:12.832 --> 00:18:12.842
Yeah.
00:18:12.842 --> 00:18:13.547
No, no, no.
00:18:13.576 --> 00:18:13.866
This.
00:18:14.666 --> 00:18:17.606
I mean, the rescue service, again, it's all about self preservation.
00:18:17.606 --> 00:18:26.366
So we're never gonna put ourselves at risk because someone else has taken a a risk, um, which could put us in danger, so, right, right.
00:18:26.422 --> 00:18:26.711
Yeah.
00:18:26.717 --> 00:18:27.987
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:29.217 --> 00:18:37.047
So what role do team dynamics then play in strengthening outcomes versus creating destruction?
00:18:37.727 --> 00:18:48.251
Like how can leaders actively shape that difference going into strengthening outcomes versus creating destructions, because milliseconds can make, mm-hmm.
00:18:48.942 --> 00:18:51.521
That goal this way or that way, can it?
00:18:51.852 --> 00:18:52.301
Right?
00:18:52.307 --> 00:18:52.696
Mm-hmm.
00:18:52.701 --> 00:18:53.261
Mm-hmm.
00:18:53.741 --> 00:19:04.842
Again, I'd say a lot of the time it's actually having this, um, um, a, a global view over your team, as in checking in on everyone, right?
00:19:04.842 --> 00:19:09.642
And realizing that every person is a, I call it unity, a uh, call it a micro.
00:19:10.156 --> 00:19:11.747
Um, unit within a team.
00:19:11.747 --> 00:19:12.076
Yes.
00:19:12.376 --> 00:19:19.787
And if you're not checking in on everyone, um, leadership is very subtle, a leadership as we, um, it's teamship now.
00:19:19.967 --> 00:19:26.836
It's not about barking orders, whereas I come from a very old school team where all it was was about barking orders.
00:19:27.346 --> 00:19:36.767
Um, bullying, actually harassment, um, to try and get a result, which actually it backfired on them because the results didn't occur.
00:19:36.856 --> 00:19:38.267
Um, and.
00:19:38.977 --> 00:19:55.356
Whether that's result of their personality, which I think which was the case, but it's if you take care with the team, you take time with the team, and also if you give that team time to breathe and also say, I need some time out, your team will be even more productive because they'll want to actually work harder.
00:19:55.761 --> 00:20:02.842
And they'll work harder when they're actually in a optimal, um, stage or phase in the, in, in, in, in the project.
00:20:03.172 --> 00:20:03.261
Right.
00:20:03.382 --> 00:20:06.442
Um, so I, as I say, it's very, very subtle.
00:20:06.442 --> 00:20:14.241
I think a, a, a good leader is someone who will sit on the, on, on, on the sideline, so to speak, and you probably won't even know they.
00:20:14.326 --> 00:20:14.777
They're there.
00:20:14.866 --> 00:20:15.376
Mm.
00:20:15.406 --> 00:20:19.126
Um, they're kind of like that guardian angel as, or I would say, right.
00:20:19.126 --> 00:20:19.156
Okay.
00:20:19.156 --> 00:20:21.406
The guardian angel, they're looking after their flock.
00:20:21.406 --> 00:20:25.936
They're bringing their flock together to, to be a, an effective, effective team.
00:20:25.936 --> 00:20:26.057
Mm-hmm.
00:20:28.271 --> 00:20:39.731
And also a leader should be able to be someone who you go in and you can ask them, you can sit down, have a chat with them, um, about stuff which you don't understand or you're feeling threatened by.
00:20:40.061 --> 00:20:48.672
They should be very, very open, right in, in, in different cultures it's different because it's all very much the leader is the person you.
00:20:49.241 --> 00:20:53.682
You are polite, Tom, you, you, you re um, right.
00:20:54.221 --> 00:20:59.142
And you've, I think the linguistic side of things can actually make more barriers in the long run.
00:20:59.142 --> 00:20:59.231
Right.
00:20:59.231 --> 00:21:10.602
Whereas an Anglo-Saxon kind of, um, environment, we'll say you, and there's been less kind of stigma attached speaking to the CEO or the, the, the person of the company.
00:21:11.186 --> 00:21:17.576
Um, and I think that's why I got things wrong in the fire brigade because I used to go straight to the, the big boss.
00:21:17.696 --> 00:21:19.946
If I was upset with something'cause I thought I needed to, right.
00:21:20.096 --> 00:21:24.356
And I was, you know, kinda my hands kind of, Caroline, you shouldn't have done that.
00:21:24.356 --> 00:21:29.547
You should have followed the procedure, you know, go to see the sergeant who then goes to see the Colin and who goes to see the ma.
00:21:29.876 --> 00:21:31.497
And it's just like, right.
00:21:31.497 --> 00:21:36.027
See, leadership for me is, is like a finely tuned instrument.
00:21:36.957 --> 00:21:42.477
It takes time to finally tune, um, the leader and then the team right on top.
00:21:42.477 --> 00:21:42.926
Right?
00:21:43.076 --> 00:21:43.376
Right.
00:21:43.376 --> 00:21:49.076
Um, but if that time is taken and that emotional intelligence is there mm-hmm.
00:21:49.317 --> 00:21:51.176
That's the other thing, right?
00:21:51.207 --> 00:21:51.567
Yeah.
00:21:51.596 --> 00:21:56.787
Like thing, uh, you know, uh, we can have a very effective, very well healthy functioning team.
00:21:56.787 --> 00:21:57.626
Mm-hmm.
00:21:57.686 --> 00:21:59.186
Yeah, totally.
00:22:00.237 --> 00:22:05.277
You mentioned communication earlier on in terms of being vital.
00:22:06.461 --> 00:22:10.451
Is that a big proponent of what you're speaking of?
00:22:10.451 --> 00:22:13.362
I mean, what you just shared in terms of the Nope.
00:22:13.392 --> 00:22:14.801
You go, you did the wrong thing.
00:22:14.801 --> 00:22:17.412
You didn't go direct and had, you don't do that here.
00:22:17.412 --> 00:22:18.582
You do A, B, C.
00:22:18.582 --> 00:22:18.672
Mm-hmm.
00:22:18.672 --> 00:22:20.172
And then it goes up the ladder.
00:22:20.682 --> 00:22:20.801
Mm-hmm.
00:22:20.807 --> 00:22:21.076
Mm-hmm.
00:22:21.102 --> 00:22:25.932
That to me indicates that that's something, um, that is.
00:22:26.336 --> 00:22:34.737
In need of, I'm gonna say repair because people aren't feeling safe to be able to say things that that need to be said.
00:22:34.737 --> 00:22:42.656
And communication is about listening and receiving, and not just barking orders, but listening to understand.
00:22:42.656 --> 00:22:43.076
Right?
00:22:43.166 --> 00:22:43.257
Mm-hmm.
00:22:43.317 --> 00:22:47.366
Is that a piece that you feel is important in teams and in leaders?
00:22:48.896 --> 00:22:49.856
Yeah, definitely.
00:22:49.886 --> 00:22:58.136
And I say I think a lot of it could, can be cultural, but communication as we know, they, the words, I mean, communication, the spoken word is what, 7%.
00:22:58.797 --> 00:22:59.007
Right.
00:22:59.007 --> 00:23:02.126
Um, and it's about how, um, yeah, I mean, yeah.
00:23:02.126 --> 00:23:04.886
You know, the communication is, is is also what you're doing.
00:23:04.946 --> 00:23:10.406
Um, and again, I'll bring it even down to the, the, the, the communication I have with my dog or my dog.
00:23:10.406 --> 00:23:11.307
Still have a dog to this day.
00:23:11.547 --> 00:23:11.906
Sure.
00:23:12.027 --> 00:23:12.537
Um.
00:23:12.876 --> 00:23:24.247
It has to be so finite and, and, and tuned in a way that you are both interacting in a way which is gonna bring a good result.
00:23:24.547 --> 00:23:28.626
And I think we could learn a lot from human versus canine communication.
00:23:29.166 --> 00:23:36.037
Um, and the RN of of it all is the, in this team I was in the person who liked to bark.
00:23:36.696 --> 00:23:40.836
Yeah, he had a series of dogs, which didn't really work very well.
00:23:40.896 --> 00:23:40.957
Mm.
00:23:41.527 --> 00:23:44.047
Because he tried to dominate his dogs constantly.
00:23:44.047 --> 00:23:53.886
And when you try and dominate a dog, uh, especially a certain breed of dog, um, a mair, a Belgium Shepherd, you can end up with very, very, um, oh yeah.
00:23:54.307 --> 00:23:57.967
Opposite, opposite, um, temperament and opposite behavioral traits.
00:23:58.507 --> 00:23:58.626
Yeah.
00:23:58.656 --> 00:24:01.747
So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's good to follow procedures.
00:24:01.747 --> 00:24:04.656
Procedures are there to keep us safe, of course, in the mountain.
00:24:05.307 --> 00:24:12.596
Um, and they're there to, um, make sure that the, the, uh, project or the, or the mission goes through.
00:24:13.047 --> 00:24:19.886
Um, but then you need to be able to adapt and you need to be able to adapt to, um, you know, how you're communicating with people.
00:24:20.277 --> 00:24:20.547
Right.
00:24:20.606 --> 00:24:30.057
Um, so yeah, it's, um, it's a, a great learning experience for me, um, being in that team for 10 years, but I'm very grateful that I'm no longer there.
00:24:30.656 --> 00:24:31.017
Right.
00:24:31.047 --> 00:24:31.467
Yeah.
00:24:31.737 --> 00:24:33.172
And it was time, right?
00:24:34.076 --> 00:24:34.576
It was time.
00:24:34.576 --> 00:24:35.176
There were other things.
00:24:35.176 --> 00:24:42.192
It was things, it was destiny kind of pulled me another way and, um, I'm out of it now and, um, yeah.
00:24:42.852 --> 00:24:55.781
Yeah, it's, um, it's, it's good to be able to take everything which I've learned because despite, as we say, when you go through negative, um, not particularly nice experiences, they are also a, a moment of growth.
00:24:56.321 --> 00:24:56.412
Yeah.
00:24:56.442 --> 00:25:02.231
Um, which does make you, you know, obviously stronger, but it also helps you move forward and actually help others.
00:25:02.531 --> 00:25:03.192
Um, exactly.
00:25:03.477 --> 00:25:06.297
So, yeah, exactly.
00:25:06.656 --> 00:25:23.906
And, and I, I know for me, a lot of the things that I share and talk about with clients and when I do, you know, different events and whatnot, is about the idea around leadership of self and how important it is.
00:25:24.116 --> 00:25:29.787
As you spoke about that, that gut brain that tells you, wait a minute, wait a minute.
00:25:30.237 --> 00:25:35.936
We get to listen to those pieces and nobody gets to tell us otherwise.
00:25:35.936 --> 00:25:39.896
It's up to us to be able to know who we are as individuals.
00:25:39.896 --> 00:25:50.426
And I, I have, my experience has always been those leaders that I've had throughout my career prior to doing what I do now in education.
00:25:51.027 --> 00:25:57.477
Um, the leaders that I absolutely adored were very.
00:25:57.836 --> 00:26:09.537
Knowledgeable about who they were, and they were also very, um, I'm gonna say communicative in their presence.
00:26:10.436 --> 00:26:14.757
Not just in their words, they didn't just stand, they weren't the sage on the stage.
00:26:15.057 --> 00:26:16.166
They were genuine.
00:26:16.166 --> 00:26:16.497
Right.
00:26:16.527 --> 00:26:25.017
They were who they were, whether they were at the front of the stage for the opening address or whether they were coming into your school or whatever.
00:26:25.467 --> 00:26:28.467
They just were solid human beings, good people.
00:26:28.467 --> 00:26:28.557
Mm-hmm.
00:26:29.967 --> 00:26:32.576
Who took time, right?
00:26:33.267 --> 00:26:33.446
Mm-hmm.
00:26:33.448 --> 00:26:33.458
Mm-hmm.
00:26:33.491 --> 00:26:33.771
Yeah.
00:26:34.991 --> 00:26:35.172
Yeah.
00:26:35.172 --> 00:26:41.231
Time is precious and it's, it's taking that time to give that time to people Yeah.
00:26:41.261 --> 00:26:43.182
And to actually be approachable.
00:26:43.662 --> 00:26:44.051
Right.
00:26:44.142 --> 00:26:47.082
Um, so I think that's another aspect.
00:26:47.082 --> 00:26:49.692
You don't feel that you can approach someone.
00:26:49.811 --> 00:26:54.237
Um, that's when things start, the, the, the barriers start coming up.
00:26:54.642 --> 00:26:54.731
Right.
00:26:55.001 --> 00:26:56.352
Um, so yeah.
00:26:56.892 --> 00:26:57.582
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:57.582 --> 00:26:58.541
There's some good leaders.
00:26:58.541 --> 00:27:07.122
Funny how, we imagine leaders always to be these kind of, the, the posture of someone standing there and kind of shouting on, I'm not gonna name one, one in particular person.
00:27:07.571 --> 00:27:09.027
Um, yep, yep, yep.
00:27:09.791 --> 00:27:10.211
Um, yeah.
00:27:11.112 --> 00:27:12.942
Around the world, um mm-hmm.
00:27:12.942 --> 00:27:18.041
And it's the ones in behind the scenes which make things or help things flow, um, right.
00:27:18.311 --> 00:27:23.922
Very subtly, but, uh, in a very, I'd say, as said before, emotionally intelligent way, so, yeah.
00:27:23.922 --> 00:27:23.932
Mm-hmm.
00:27:24.071 --> 00:27:24.372
Yeah.
00:27:24.491 --> 00:27:25.422
Yeah, for sure.
00:27:27.551 --> 00:27:29.021
And, I mean, I'll give you an example of my dog.
00:27:29.142 --> 00:27:30.882
I, yeah, just sorry to cut you.
00:27:30.882 --> 00:27:39.221
Give an example of my dog, you know, I used to be accused of being too soft with him and, um, I had to put a bed in the cage and they were like, oh, no, no, it's a working dog.
00:27:39.221 --> 00:27:44.711
He, he needs to be in a hard, and I was just like thinking, well, how about you sleep on the floor tonight?
00:27:45.461 --> 00:27:47.082
Are you gonna work well in the morning?
00:27:47.442 --> 00:27:47.592
Right?
00:27:47.592 --> 00:27:50.112
And he's like, yes, he's a working dog and you're too soft.
00:27:50.112 --> 00:27:52.902
And I said, well, why does my dog work?
00:27:53.136 --> 00:27:57.126
Um, oh, he works, he works well because he's, he's, he, he just has it in him.
00:27:57.517 --> 00:27:59.676
I was like, well, no, that doesn't, that's not the case.
00:27:59.676 --> 00:28:04.176
You know, a dog handler, you know, brings out the best or the worst in their dog.
00:28:05.136 --> 00:28:05.467
Totally.
00:28:05.467 --> 00:28:16.057
So, yeah, I, it's again about, I, I know we call them French, which is dog, you know, master as the translator as okay.
00:28:16.057 --> 00:28:19.267
And, you know, we are not mastering a dog at all.
00:28:19.356 --> 00:28:20.646
We shouldn't be mastering a dog.
00:28:21.251 --> 00:28:22.122
As I say, it's a team.
00:28:22.122 --> 00:28:27.731
We should be working together in fusional effective, gentle, loving way.
00:28:28.061 --> 00:28:28.392
Right.
00:28:28.481 --> 00:28:29.201
Um, so yeah.
00:28:29.561 --> 00:28:30.071
Right.
00:28:30.491 --> 00:28:30.642
Yeah.
00:28:30.642 --> 00:28:35.951
And the softy Caroline here really like, really, Caroline.
00:28:36.011 --> 00:28:36.432
Really?
00:28:37.751 --> 00:28:38.112
Gee.
00:28:38.352 --> 00:28:43.902
It's like, I know it's, but it, but you're to your point, well.
00:28:44.696 --> 00:28:46.166
How does my dog perform?
00:28:46.166 --> 00:28:47.576
Oh, it's a great dog.
00:28:47.757 --> 00:28:48.747
Mm-hmm.
00:28:49.376 --> 00:28:59.186
It is a great dog, and I see that and I know that, and I love him for that because he's giving me as much as I'm able to give back to him.
00:28:59.217 --> 00:28:59.396
Mm.
00:28:59.426 --> 00:28:59.757
Right.
00:28:59.757 --> 00:29:03.717
It's that dual relationship, so, yeah.
00:29:04.017 --> 00:29:05.037
Isn't that interesting?
00:29:05.037 --> 00:29:12.507
I, I love how you talk too about dogs know animals know people they know the energy Horses know.
00:29:13.182 --> 00:29:13.811
The energy.
00:29:13.842 --> 00:29:13.932
Mm-hmm.
00:29:13.932 --> 00:29:17.981
They just have that seventh, eighth sense, whatever it might be.
00:29:18.372 --> 00:29:19.362
Um mm-hmm.
00:29:19.481 --> 00:29:21.856
And so how long have you had Fjord?
00:29:23.832 --> 00:29:26.501
Uh, Fjord I had for 10 years.
00:29:26.561 --> 00:29:27.731
He's no longer with me now.
00:29:27.936 --> 00:29:28.227
Okay.
00:29:28.231 --> 00:29:28.392
Okay.
00:29:28.392 --> 00:29:30.071
He died just before lockdown.
00:29:30.162 --> 00:29:31.271
Um, oh.
00:29:31.481 --> 00:29:33.521
So, yeah, quite sad.
00:29:33.521 --> 00:29:37.241
He collapsed prior to just after an avalanche training.
00:29:37.332 --> 00:29:39.372
Um, he got bored in the uk.
00:29:39.372 --> 00:29:41.892
I couldn't train him in the UK because the English team are like, no, no, no.
00:29:41.892 --> 00:29:43.692
Your qualification's not valid here in England.
00:29:43.751 --> 00:29:45.041
So, oh.
00:29:45.106 --> 00:29:49.426
Yeah, he got bored eight socks and ended up hurting himself inside.
00:29:49.426 --> 00:29:52.126
So he was with me for, he died when he was nine.
00:29:52.666 --> 00:29:52.787
Okay.
00:29:52.817 --> 00:29:54.886
Um, but I now, I now have another dog.
00:29:55.126 --> 00:29:55.727
Um Okay.
00:29:56.686 --> 00:29:58.277
And she's a female.
00:29:58.277 --> 00:30:06.227
And up until last year, um, I think it was last year, the year before, no female avalanche dogs were allowed in France, it was only males.
00:30:08.267 --> 00:30:09.076
Okay.
00:30:09.467 --> 00:30:10.217
So anyway.
00:30:10.307 --> 00:30:10.517
Yeah.
00:30:10.517 --> 00:30:11.176
We're gonna let that sit.
00:30:11.182 --> 00:30:13.352
It was never Yeah.
00:30:13.352 --> 00:30:13.511
Yeah.
00:30:14.741 --> 00:30:16.422
Historically, I think there was an avalanche.
00:30:16.422 --> 00:30:24.642
She went wrong, and as a result, they decided to ban the weaker or whatever the per the element, which would've put the males off their work.
00:30:25.211 --> 00:30:28.031
So when I took my female, I knew she couldn't be an avalanche dog.
00:30:28.092 --> 00:30:31.902
Now they've allowed to have females, but it's too late.
00:30:31.902 --> 00:30:33.071
She's too old now to do it.
00:30:33.071 --> 00:30:33.102
Okay.
00:30:33.102 --> 00:30:33.162
Yeah.
00:30:33.192 --> 00:30:35.051
So I've trained her in something else.
00:30:35.051 --> 00:30:37.182
I've trained her in bed bedbug detection.
00:30:37.287 --> 00:30:37.406
Oh wow.
00:30:37.646 --> 00:30:41.727
So she, she could detect bedbugs, just wanted to give it something to do.
00:30:41.787 --> 00:30:42.596
Um, you know.
00:30:42.596 --> 00:30:42.836
Yeah.
00:30:42.836 --> 00:30:52.076
And it is either, um, yeah, trailing or right drugs or explosives, and those are the kind of things I can't just get a hold of down the road.
00:30:52.076 --> 00:30:53.067
So I thought, right.
00:30:53.126 --> 00:30:53.396
Yeah.
00:30:53.396 --> 00:30:54.326
Get a hold of bedbugs.
00:30:54.656 --> 00:30:55.017
Yeah.
00:30:55.376 --> 00:30:55.761
There you go.
00:30:57.162 --> 00:31:02.622
Pretty consistent opportunities Oh dear.
00:31:02.622 --> 00:31:05.592
Decide to keep her her healthy mentally and, and yeah.
00:31:05.592 --> 00:31:11.382
Keep me knowing that she's doing something, she's gonna got a, got a, a bit of a purpose, you know, in her life.
00:31:11.412 --> 00:31:11.652
Yeah.
00:31:11.652 --> 00:31:11.922
For sure.
00:31:11.922 --> 00:31:14.531
Not a dog needs a purpose, but they, you know, they are Yeah.
00:31:14.531 --> 00:31:17.862
Animals in the day who like to go out and hunt and be in a pack, so, of course.
00:31:17.866 --> 00:31:18.086
Yeah.
00:31:18.517 --> 00:31:18.912
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:19.001 --> 00:31:19.092
Mm-hmm.
00:31:19.332 --> 00:31:22.086
You're, you're being true to their nature, which is key.
00:31:22.531 --> 00:31:24.241
I mean, yeah, totally.
00:31:24.301 --> 00:31:24.662
Totally.
00:31:24.662 --> 00:31:28.051
What you're about in terms of giving support to the animals that you love.
00:31:28.981 --> 00:31:29.761
Amazing.
00:31:29.791 --> 00:31:29.882
Mm-hmm.
00:31:30.872 --> 00:31:35.251
Is there anything that you would love to leave our audience with?
00:31:35.251 --> 00:31:41.071
It's been such an incredible opportunity to share this space and time and conversation with you.
00:31:41.071 --> 00:31:41.761
Caroline.
00:31:41.761 --> 00:31:43.592
Such a gift to have met you.
00:31:43.682 --> 00:31:45.511
I'm so honored for this time.
00:31:46.051 --> 00:31:46.832
Is there anything?
00:31:46.832 --> 00:31:46.981
Thank you.
00:31:46.981 --> 00:31:47.336
I'm very honored.
00:31:47.936 --> 00:31:47.997
Yeah.
00:31:49.977 --> 00:31:55.227
Anything you'd love to share with the audience as, as we wrap up our conversation today?
00:31:57.446 --> 00:32:10.166
I would, um, and this may sound a bit strange, but I would say that, you know, my communication with my dogs is probably the most finite and beautiful kind of relationship I have.
00:32:11.787 --> 00:32:17.217
I would, again, with all the work I do, just in predominantly in teams, is kindness.
00:32:17.366 --> 00:32:17.997
Um, yeah.
00:32:17.997 --> 00:32:23.067
And respect, um, towards your fellow members, you might not like them.
00:32:23.711 --> 00:32:28.332
As a person, we are not, you know, we, we come into the world where the people we don't like.
00:32:28.872 --> 00:32:29.051
Right.
00:32:29.051 --> 00:32:38.352
But, um, you've got to be gentle with people because, you know, we all have to live on the plant together, you know, all work in the, in teams together.
00:32:38.352 --> 00:32:42.207
And, um, there's so much stuff going on in the world now mm-hmm.
00:32:42.672 --> 00:32:48.162
That I think a little bit of kindness and, and love and, and care towards every person.
00:32:48.582 --> 00:32:52.632
Um, not that it's always easy in stressful situations.
00:32:52.846 --> 00:32:55.787
Um, it said, just try, try your best.
00:32:55.787 --> 00:33:02.207
And again, if you're on ski slopes, you're out there skiing, guys, skiing, it is just turn around and, and be respectful for others.
00:33:02.207 --> 00:33:07.846
I mean, the other day I got shouted at, um, quite badly by some clients and I was just like, I ended up crying.
00:33:07.906 --> 00:33:10.096
You know, I went back up to my ski patrol hunt and crying.
00:33:10.126 --> 00:33:11.507
So, yeah.
00:33:11.567 --> 00:33:15.616
Um, were all there trying to, yeah, do what we're doing in, in life.
00:33:15.616 --> 00:33:20.987
So kindness and and respect are my two go-tos.
00:33:21.461 --> 00:33:23.592
For sure and thank you for that.
00:33:23.592 --> 00:33:41.261
And, and I think when my experience has been, when that doesn't come naturally for individuals, the way that my former behavior resource teacher brain works is that there's something within them.
00:33:41.967 --> 00:33:47.396
That is hurting, that they can't see the value of being kind.
00:33:47.396 --> 00:33:51.777
They can't even be kind to themselves, so they push it out and give it to everybody else.
00:33:51.777 --> 00:34:01.797
The disrespect, that's the only way that I can reframe it in order to be able to hold it in a way that doesn't affect me deeply.
00:34:01.977 --> 00:34:02.186
Right.
00:34:02.186 --> 00:34:02.307
Yeah.
00:34:02.307 --> 00:34:03.477
Because people, mm-hmm.
00:34:04.317 --> 00:34:04.946
Wow.
00:34:04.946 --> 00:34:07.166
We've got such an incredible.
00:34:08.097 --> 00:34:10.197
Breadth and depth of individuality.
00:34:10.197 --> 00:34:10.286
Mm-hmm.
00:34:10.706 --> 00:34:17.217
And what you just shared I think is missing and it's almost like we have to reteach it.
00:34:17.952 --> 00:34:18.371
Mm-hmm.
00:34:18.751 --> 00:34:19.532
Oh, definitely.
00:34:19.532 --> 00:34:20.052
Definitely.
00:34:20.231 --> 00:34:20.612
For sure.
00:34:20.612 --> 00:34:20.851
Right?
00:34:21.112 --> 00:34:21.331
Yep.
00:34:21.431 --> 00:34:21.851
Mm-hmm.
00:34:22.797 --> 00:34:24.117
And how unfortunate.
00:34:24.117 --> 00:34:37.556
So I'm so glad that you have the relationship that you have with your animals to be able to hold that anchor in a way that is non-negotiable and it's unconditional.
00:34:38.217 --> 00:34:53.847
So thank you for being that light to help guide teams in ways that they need to experience so that they can really put the rubber to the road and understand who they are as individuals to bring a team aspect together that is successful.
00:34:54.447 --> 00:34:56.726
And I love the idea of your simulation.
00:34:56.876 --> 00:34:58.436
That sounds amazing.
00:34:59.666 --> 00:34:59.996
Look at you.
00:35:00.476 --> 00:35:02.637
Come, come, come and bury you in a hole.
00:35:02.637 --> 00:35:05.067
Come, come, come over to the to the else.
00:35:05.396 --> 00:35:11.097
Mean I can, there's, there's any resort in, in, in the, in the North America Who would like me to, to come bring you on board.
00:35:11.097 --> 00:35:12.476
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm open for it.
00:35:12.536 --> 00:35:13.527
Um, yeah.
00:35:13.556 --> 00:35:15.416
So yeah, for sure be a mix of that.
00:35:15.447 --> 00:35:18.927
Pushing people in holes, um, but also bit of cold water.
00:35:19.391 --> 00:35:20.922
Pushing you outta your depths, basically.
00:35:20.952 --> 00:35:22.452
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:22.992 --> 00:35:37.211
Such an interesting way to go about it, and thank you for bringing it forward today In our conversation, we will have thank you ways to connect with Caroline in the show notes, so make sure you go and check the show notes.
00:35:37.782 --> 00:35:43.331
Caroline, thank you again for your no thank you time and your expertise.
00:35:43.362 --> 00:35:44.112
I love it.
00:35:44.112 --> 00:35:47.621
It's been such a pleasure to get to know you a little bit further.
00:35:47.621 --> 00:35:47.652
I.
00:35:49.197 --> 00:35:53.067
Thank you so much for your time and yeah, just, just wonderful.
00:35:53.067 --> 00:35:57.597
It's very, very energizing for me to speak to someone like yourself, so thank you.
00:35:57.867 --> 00:35:58.797
Thank you.
00:35:59.336 --> 00:36:01.737
If you have had something, uh.
00:36:02.742 --> 00:36:07.601
I'm gonna say trigger not the best word to use, but that's what's coming forward.
00:36:07.601 --> 00:36:08.501
So I'm using it.
00:36:08.501 --> 00:36:18.192
If you've had something trigger or set inside of you from our conversation today, make sure that you tap back in.
00:36:18.192 --> 00:36:21.012
That red flag came up, step back.
00:36:21.012 --> 00:36:22.302
Don't jump forward.
00:36:22.302 --> 00:36:25.032
Step back, take that space and pause.
00:36:25.632 --> 00:36:27.012
Check out the show notes.
00:36:27.012 --> 00:36:27.762
Find Caroline.
00:36:28.911 --> 00:36:37.311
And make sure that you share, follow like our show so that other people can find us.
00:36:37.371 --> 00:36:42.112
Have a great day, everyone, and we are going to continue to thrive after 45.